new 1950 b2b project

[Dave72dt]

If my positive battery cable goes to the starter then it means someone had converted it from + ground to - ground and I just connect wire from coil + to battery like normal right? Havent messed with + ground systems at all.

Seems like a logical conclusion or it may be an assumption that it was converted. 6V systems tend to be positive ground, 12V can be either in that era of production but commonly negative ground. People have hooked the up incorrectly before assuming all electrical systems get hooked up the same way. Check your coil polarity. If the distributer wire is on the neg side of coil, it's most likely been changed.

[bondvagabond]

Think my coil is shot primary reads 1.2 ohms but secondary reads 11,006 ohms

Think it's supossed to be 1-1.5 and 5.5-9.5 respectively.

[bondvagabond]

Now think coil is good from online research. Parts counter dood was smokin something with the coil resistance values he gave me.

So if coil is good and I am taking any ignition switch problems out of the equation by jumping the coil + to battery +, and I am getting no spark from distributor end of coil wire when held near block, my problem should be either the coil wire or the wire from the - coil terminal to the distributor. I put a known good coil wire from my geo metro (dont laugh, im 6'5" as well) and no spark, so problem must be with wire from negative coil terminal to distributor?

Would appreciate a word if anyone sees a flaw in my trouble shooting. Have new plug wires comming in tommorow since these are beat.

[Jeff Balazs]

You may have a bad ground.....or perhaps the wiring is bad or has incorrect polarity somewhere?

I don't understand why anyone would change a 6V positive ground system over to a 6V negative ground.....there is no advantage to that. If they went to a 12V negative ground then yes there are advantages......but the coil should have been changed out and there should be other clear indicators of the swap such as 12V bulbs etc..

 

Could it be that the battery was just hooked up the wrong way and your assumptions are not correct? Or perhaps the PO started to make a change and never finished it?

 

Just some ideas.

 

Jeff

[Dave72dt]

The points and condenser are also parts of the primary ignition system. The secondary won't work unless the primary does. Do the points spark when opening and closing them?

[HanksB3B]

You may have a bad ground.....or perhaps the wiring is bad or has incorrect polarity somewhere?

I don't understand why anyone would change a 6V positive ground system over to a 6V negative ground.....there is no advantage to that. If they went to a 12V negative ground then yes there are advantages......but the coil should have been changed out and there should be other clear indicators of the swap such as 12V bulbs etc..

Could it be that the battery was just hooked up the wrong way and your assumptions are not correct? Or perhaps the PO started to make a change and never finished it? 

Just some ideas.

Jeff

 

 It happens all the time...most likely after 12 volt negative ground became the standard mechanics not in-the-know just assumed negative ground is correct for 6 volt systems.  I'm not certain about this, but I think it can damage the starter motor.  During my rebuild somehow my functioning starter was fried and had to be rebuilt.  It was rebuilt in Arizona because my local guy told me because of some California law they could no longer rebuild starters (bs? not sure) After it got back, someone told me to add a ground strap from the engine block to the frame which I did.

 

What are the possible damages that can occur by reversing the ground from positive to negative ?

 

Thanks,

 

Hank   

Edited November 23, 2013 by HanksB3B

[bondvagabond]

The points and condenser are also parts of the primary ignition system. The secondary won't work unless the primary does. Do the points spark when opening and closing them?

No point sparking when cranking over but they look spankin new, maybe the condenser is bad? Have new ones on way with brake parts from rock auto.

[Dave72dt]

That spark at the points is the final visual test of the primary system. Since you don't have it, back up through the system and determine where you do or don't have power. There may be nothing wrong with the points or condenser. They won't work if there is no power to them. Troubleshoooting requires a logical, systematic approach of testing and verifying what you have or don't have.

[bondvagabond]

Im sure its somthing easy that I am missing. Any ideas what the resistance should be on the plug wires? What is the propper name for the wire running from the negative coil terminal to the distributor, and how do I test it?

[Don Coatney]

Im sure its somthing easy that I am missing. Any ideas what the resistance should be on the plug wires? What is the propper name for the wire running from the negative coil terminal to the distributor, and how do I test it?

It is called the distributor power supply wire. To test it use a continuity tester. As Dave said in post #33 if you follow a step by step procedure to find out where the power is lost you will soon be up and running.

[Jeff Balazs]

You may have a bad ground at the distributor itself. I ran into this with my truck.

The mating surface at the collar where it seats into the engine block may need to be cleaned up. If it has been setting a long time there is a good chance this area may have a bit of rust or corrosion that is preventing a good ground. Removing the distributor on these is very easy....just make note of where the rotor is pointing and then remove the vacuum advance connection and the retaining bolt and lift it straight out. You will find that it is much easier to check the points etc... with the distributor out and on the bench with these trucks.

 

Jeff

[RobRobitaille]

I always use a test light and put it from the neg on the battery to the side of coil the distributor is connected if it flashes when the engine cranks there is a coil problem if you have no spark if not look at the points and condenser. This is on neg ground system. I am not sure but if you have a pos ground I think you could do the same but attach the test light to the pos on you battery.

 

This may not be the best way but has worked for me many times. 

 

My experience with points has been that after they have sat for extended periods of time you will need to clean the contacts with emery cloth or replace them. and condensers usually fail when engine has been running for a while then it will quit and once cooled down they work again.

 

Hope some of this is helpful  

Edited November 23, 2013 by RobRobitaille

[bondvagabond]

Thanks guys for all the advice. I have a coil that tests out good as far as resistance,

And I am jumping straight from the battery positive to the coil positive terminal with wire. Which should negate any ignition switch issues because since I am bypassing that.

Next logical step is to check continuity between coil negative post and engine block right? Which would narrow my problem to coil supply wire, breaker points, condenser, or mating surface between distributor and engine block?

Does that sound like a good plan of attack?

[RobRobitaille]

Put a test light between the neg on batery and the neg on coil and crank it over and see if it flashes if not clean the points with sand paper or emery cloth and try again

 

You don't even need to remove the points just carefully open them and rub some emery folded over between the contacts.  

 

Checking continuity between the neg on coil and the block or neg on battery would only show continuity if the points happened to be closed at the point the engine stopped 

Edited November 23, 2013 by RobRobitaille

[Jeff Balazs]

Has your truck actually been switched over to 12 V negative ground?

 

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

Has your truck actually been switched over to 12 V negative ground?

 

Jeff

 

Good question before all the guages (2) get blown out.

 

Hank 

Edited November 23, 2013 by HanksB3B

[bondvagabond]

So she fired up with a sploosh of gas down the carb! The outside of my dizzy was grimy so I pulled it out and cleaned it up on the outside as well as undoing all the little connections inside and cleaning them off. Cleaned points and adjusted to 20/1000ths did I remember that correctly? Points looked great in the truck but when pulled they had thin even coat of light grey corrosion. Pulling the distributor was the way to go, thanks for the tip.

Need to mooch a compressor to blow out fuel lines. Still not getting fuel to fuel pump bowl, but tank is nice and clean inside with 4 gal of fresh gas in it. Will either be clogged line or shot fuel pump I think. Do these have a rubber diaphram in them that goes bad from sitting? You guys rebuild or buy new?

Things will just get better when the not rusty 10 year old plugs get here and I finish crimping up the new plug wires. Just did the coil wire so far.

[bondvagabond]

I believe it has been converted to 6v negative ground. The positive terminal of the battery goes to the starter and the negative battery cable goes to a bolt on the transmission.

I got the new plug wires crimped up while watching a movie tonight. Should improve spark quality.

[bondvagabond]

My cousin has offered to make me a hand crank starter does anyone have a factory one they could give me dimentions on?

[pflaming]

I've been thinking of getting a starting crank. My engine starts on the first revolution, would be trick to be downtown, get out the crank, give it a pull, then get in and drive off.  Will he make two?

Edited November 24, 2013 by pflaming

[Don Coatney]

I believe it has been converted to 6v negative ground. The positive terminal of the battery goes to the starter and the negative battery cable goes to a bolt on the transmission.

I got the new plug wires crimped up while watching a movie tonight. Should improve spark quality.

Could the battery be mounted backwards?

[Dave72dt]

Most likely as Don pointed out. The unknowing will install it the same way they find it in their daily. How is the coil wired, pos to the dist or neg to the dist?

[Jeff Balazs]

Could the battery be mounted backwards?

I agree. It would be really odd to have converted to negative ground. No advantage or gain in that conversion. If it was a goof up I wonder if it would have damaged the charging system or something else?

 

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

Vagabond,

 

" Need to mooch a compressor to blow out fuel lines. Still not getting fuel to fuel pump bowl, but tank is nice and clean inside with 4 gal of fresh gas in it. Will either be clogged line or shot fuel pump I think. Do these have a rubber diaphram in them that goes bad from sitting? You guys rebuild or buy new?"

 

Yes they do have a rubber diaphram and yes they do go bad from sitting.  Then and Now Automotive are the people you'll want talk to. 

 

http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm

 

Their kit is about $40 and their rebuild service about $85.  They are a little tricky to reassemble. But nothing a little patience and a bit of muscle can't overcome.  Their customer service is excellent. Their tecnician walked me through the toughest part which is getting the diaphram to hook-up with the lever. 

 

My friends at my local machine shop Shaver Specialties, let me use their bead blast cabinet.

 

Here is what the Kit looks like. It has everything you need.

 

Good luck with yours,

 

Hank 

Edited November 24, 2013 by HanksB3B

[MBF]

Don't worry about guage damage. If they're still the original setup, the oil pressure and temp are both mechanical.  The ammeter will show a + flow (like it was charging) if you turn on the headlights and the battery is in backwards.  Starter won't make any difference unless the truck has been converted to 12V and the starter had not been rewound to accomodate it.  It will work fine, just don't grind on it for a long period of time w/o giving it time to cool off.  A 6 volt starter on a 12V system will get hot enough to damage itself if you let it get overheated.  I've been using the original 6 volt starters in my 1 ton and 36 Plymouth since I converted them several years ago.  Never had a problem.  If you get a rebuild kit for your fuel pump, make sure it is rated for today's fuels.  Good luck.. Mike

Edited November 24, 2013 by MBFowler