Body Work Fun and Games

[55 Fargo]

Hey all, doing somebody work these days,just welded in patches on left front fender, roughed it in with filler too.

My roof was crumpled up like a chip bag that has been all crumpled.

I have got her straightened up quite a bit, all the oil canning seems to be gone. But I am left with the surface of the moon, oh lucky me.

Any of you ever fiix a roof like mine. I figure there will be whole lot of filler, no deep, but spread over the entire roof.

I won't be trying to shrink metal,just rough her out and fill. Hey maybe I should cut a hole fora sun roof...........LOL

[buds truck]

yup, my roof is probably no better than yours especially since it has a weld bead running all the way across it from chopping the top. Ya just start on one end and work towards the other......... got pics?

[Dave72dt]

You can get them really close if you want to spend some time on it. If yyou dkn't know where the high spots are for sure, a few passes with a DA will take the paint off the high spots first, follow by bumping the lows up, a few more passes with the DA. You don't have to work the entire roof at one time. Do it in sections. With one hand on top and light bumps from below, you can feel the metal move. Less filler the better.

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Bud and Dave, my expectations are to get this roof reasonably level, and will use the least amoutn of filler to get this .

Here are some pics, just want to make her presentable. I do have a donaor roof, for possibly 1 day , may want to perform a real classy body and paint job. At this point, puling th other roof and cutting mine out, is beyond my current scope and plans.

Here are the pics

[55 Fargo]

I also just did this front drivers fender edge along door edge. I welded in new metal, , then epoxy filler, then body filler, needs ,more work but she is roughed in pretty good, just a few minor high spots. My welder isa chep flux-core, hard to get nice small clean welds like a mig.

I plan to use 3m or evercoat panel bond on some other small patches, that stuff works great.

[55 Fargo]

The roof is a whole lot better, but a long tedious process, especially with limited skills and tools. Al the oil canning is gone, some low and high spots still, but way better than it was.

The roof is amazingly hard to strip, no doubt alll the vibration, using a DA sander and 80 grit, palm sander with 80 grit, and 3M stripping discs, but very hard to remove all the paint and rust.

I covered the roof with my favorite Home Hardware rusty metal grey primer, I could not believe how well this stuff was able to fill deep scratches, and very easy to sand too.

Some pics..

[buds truck]

That roof looks real fixable, I sure wouldnt even think of replacing it either. A little bit of filler and it will look like new!!!

[55 Fargo]

That roof looks real fixable, I sure wouldnt even think of replacing it either. A little bit of filler and it will look like new!!!

Yah its a heck of a lot better, than what I started with

[Dave72dt]

The old addage is still true. The first 95 % can be done in 5% of the time. The last 5% takes 95 % of the time. The best tools you have are what your eyes and hands are telling you. Time spent now on the foundation will mean a lot less when you decide to do the "fancy" later. That roof is a great place to develop your hammer/dolly skills. It's very accessible from both sides, one side is covered when it's all done and you don't have to worry about if falling off benches, tables or sawhorses like some other parts.

Keep up the good work, you're doing fine.

[55 Fargo]

The old addage is still true. The first 95 % can be done in 5% of the time. The last 5% takes 95 % of the time. The best tools you have are what your eyes and hands are telling you. Time spent now on the foundation will mean a lot less when you decide to do the "fancy" later. That roof is a great place to develop your hammer/dolly skills. It's very accessible from both sides, one side is covered when it's all done and you don't have to worry about if falling off benches, tables or sawhorses like some other parts.

Keep up the good work, you're doing fine.

Thanx Dave, the roof is coming along better than i expected. Won't need all that much filler,as far as thickness,but skimming a large area will help level her out.

I might try polyester super high build primer up there, that does a lot of filling

[HanksB3B]

YouTube has lot of videos like this one:

TCP Global offers paint and body work supplies at very reasonable cost. Their web site has good technical information as well.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/

Block-out tools are a must if you want professional results.

The hood has been completly primed (after the initial bodywork/filler stage)

A light spattery mist of contrasting "rattle can" paint is used before the actual "blocking out" stage begins. This is a good trick because when you start to sand high and low spots become very evident. This is what you want to eliminate before applying a primer final coat and then final sand in preparation for the color application.

The Results

Good Luck (it's harder than you think, but you can do it!)

Hank

Edited September 2, 2012 by HanksB3B

[RobRobitaille]

The guy at the auto body supply shop told me that short strand fiberglass is the best to do a skim coat with if you have any pitting. With an adhesion promoter sprayed down first. I haven't tried it. But the guy seems to know his stuff

[Dave72dt]

I've never heard of using an adhesion promoter under filler before but that doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't be used. Check the tech sheets for the product or call their tech line. Heavy pitting should be cut out and replaced as well as anything with pinholes. Short strand usually requires a glaze coat over it to finish it off.

[48Dodger]

Fiberglass is waterproof. Body filler is not. If you have a fender that has pinholes or pitting (usally means it has a view of the other side too) and you don't use FG, the moisture will get behind the bodyfiller make it spongy and delaminate it. This is of course if you decide not to cut in new metal. On metal, I like to use FG on the seams, body filler, then glaze......

48D

[Dave72dt]

Is that short strand a true fiberglass product or not? I know it has fiberglass in it but is it just regular filler with strands? That would make me think it's somewhat porous as well.

I just started using it, primarily for panel edges that needed a little filler and some 'glass fenders that again, needed some edge work. I did use some for filling pits on a lawn tractor project. On that, I cleaned the rust out as well as I could, brushed in some Rustoleum Heavy Rust Primer, gave it 24 hrs dry time, and filled with the short strand, rough sanded and regular filler over that for final shape. The repair looks good at this point but time will be the proof. Sometimes things show up days or months afterward to disappoint you in the outcome.

[55 Fargo]

This is what I do, with good results to date.

Strip to metal, acid treat(picklex 20), prime with either epoxy primer or plain rusty metal primer.

Let rusty metal primer cure well, epoxy cure rate is fast.

Use either Evercoat short strand filler, or Evercoat Metal to Metal filler(my choice), then fill, primer/surfacer, blocking etc.

I have not used polyester primer yet, but that could be shot over a primered area, with a lot of film build.

If were talking about pin holes, or any holes, those sould be welded or even panel epoxy could be used.

This type of methods have worked well for me....

[55 Fargo]

Is that short strand a true fiberglass product or not? I know it has fiberglass in it but is it just regular filler with strands? That would make me think it's somewhat porous as well.

I just started using it, primarily for panel edges that needed a little filler and some 'glass fenders that again, needed some edge work. I did use some for filling pits on a lawn tractor project. On that, I cleaned the rust out as well as I could, brushed in some Rustoleum Heavy Rust Primer, gave it 24 hrs dry time, and filled with the short strand, rough sanded and regular filler over that for final shape. The repair looks good at this point but time will be the proof. Sometimes things show up days or months afterward to disappoint you in the outcome.

If a repair is sealed well from both sides, no moisture or oxygen can get things going again, which caused it in the 1st place.

Short strand fibreglass filler is just that fibreglass resin, the strands and is wtaer proof,where regular filler is not.Regular filler polyester resin, talc powder and other ingredients for filling shaping etc. Fibreglass filler, and even Metal filler, is much harder to cut and sand, but is water proof.

Rusty metal primer is a great product, especially when mixed wit plain old automotive reducer, and sprayed with spraygun. It has excellent adhesion, great corrosion resistance, very good sealing qualities, and sands nice when cured, you can get a pretty good film build with it too.

I have used the following over rusty metal primer, that was fully cured,

-all fillers

-epoxy primer

-2 urethane primer

-lacquer based primer

-lacquer paints

-automotive acrylic enamel

once cured this stuff is great, prep is the key, and spraying with gun laying it down in a good film build, is far superior to spray bombs, when doing large panels......

[48Dodger]

Yes its a true FG product.

http://www.eastwood.com/evercoat-everglass-filler-gallon.html

I like "Metal to Metal" if it involves a fender to door type edge or gap.

http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=37

I treat bare metal with a 4:1 water/white vineger mix (Acetic Acid)....

(bad rust, I use Naval Jelly then the vinegar mix). Neutralize with water only.

Then the FG.....then body filler...glaze...then a G2 Featherfill Polyprimer.

G2 is one of the few primers that can go over an acid primer (self etching primers use acid ) and is a polyprimer (waterproof).

PCL 901, DP40, or the K9 series can't go over etching primers...they react with the acid.

48D

Edited September 28, 2012 by 48dodger

[55 Fargo]

Yes its a true FG product.

http://www.eastwood.com/evercoat-everglass-filler-gallon.html

I like "Metal to Metal" if it involves a fender to door type edge or gap.

http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=37

I treat bare metal with a 4:1 water/white vineger mix (phosphoric acid)....

(bad rust, I use Naval Jelly then the vinegar mix). Neutralize with water only.

Then the FG.....then body filler...glaze...then a G2 Featherfill Polyprimer.

G2 is one of the few primers that can go over an acid primer (self etching primers use acid ) and is a polyprimer (waterproof).

PCL 901, DP40, or the K9 series can't go over etching primers...they react with the acid.

48D

Hey got tons of white vinegar here, gonna try, do you neutralize that. we clean scaled coffee makers with that stuff, and cleans floors and windows too.

I really like the Picklex 20( pricey stuff) for light rust, Rust Mort, for heavy stuff, have not tried Naval Jelly in years, might try it again sometime...

[knighthawk]

You're really comming along ! With the experiance, I mean ! Seems like , not too long ago, you were asking questions like... 'how to open a can of paint ", just kidding, but you have come a long way ! I really glad to see you doing this stuff, never too old to learn.............keep it up ! Just think , if you had to pay someone to do this, what it would be costing you !

[48Dodger]

Naval jelly is a Phosphoric acid.....the jelly part helps keep is where you want it. I use scotchbrite to spread it and scub it when done. Then wash it good with water to neutralize it.

The vinegar mix is Acetic acid thinned out. Think of Por-15 Metal prep....same thing just WAY cheaper.

Etching Primers use acid to help kill tiny bits of rust you may have missed, and help the primer adhere to places you couldn't reach to sand. Its not a final primer....to thin....so like I said , you need a final primer that can go over it without reacting to the acid. If you can sand the the metal, you don't need Etching Primer. I use it on tough edges, pitted panels, and wheels.

You can never use to much wax and grease remover between steps. You dont have to if youre a "neat kinda guy"...but if you wrench and paint, like a lot of us can do.....feel free to clean your surface often.

48D

Edited September 28, 2012 by 48dodger

[55 Fargo]

Naval jelly is a Phosphoric acid.....the jelly part helps keep is where you want it. I use scotchbrite to spread it and scub it when done. Then wash it good with water to neutralize it.

The vinegar mix is the same acid just thinned out a lot. Think of Por-15 Metal prep....same thing just WAY cheaper.

Etching Primers use acid to help kill tiny bits of rust you may have missed, and help the primer adhere to places you couldn't reach to sand. Its not a final primer....to thin....so like I said , you need a final primer that can go over it without reacting to the acid. If you can sand the the metal, you don't need Etching Primer. I use it on tough edges, pitted panels, and wheels.

You can never use to much wax and grease remover between steps. You dont have to if youre a "neat kinda guy"...but if you wrench and paint, like a lot of us can do.....feel free to clean your surface often.

48D

Vinegar is Acetic Acid, much milder than Muriatic or Phosphoric acid, but I guess will do the trick. Do you really find it to be as effective as PORs Metal Ready for washing metal with either rust almost totally gone, or very light, say after sanding or blasting, mostly clean, but give ita wash with an acid prep to get metal and tiny pits treated...

[55 Fargo]

You're really comming along ! With the experiance, I mean ! Seems like , not too long ago, you were asking questions like... 'how to open a can of paint ", just kidding, but you have come a long way ! I really glad to see you doing this stuff, never too old to learn.............keep it up ! Just think , if you had to pay someone to do this, what it would be costing you !

I am always willing to learn, I have found that some of the socalled "new" body and paint products, are not always better than the old skool stuff, just faster, and maybe more enivironmentally politically correct.

[48Dodger]

Ph levels 1-14, 7 being neutral (water, baking soda nuetralizes acid)

Strong acids have a PH level of 1-3, all acids are diluted for rust removal.

Orange juice--------------3.0

Vinegar-------------------2.5

CLR-----------------------2.2 (citric acids and surfactants....)

Phosphoric acid 85%-------1.1 (most rust removal products are made with this)

Hydrochloric acid 38 %-----1.0

Hydrochloric acid 10%------0.5

Battery acid----------------0.5

48D