D16 - Plymouth or Dodge?

[1940dodge]

This forum has been great, providing me with invaluable info on my car. Only a few months back I was unaware that there was such a thing as a Plymouth Bodied Dodge aka Plodge. Crazy really that they had done that over the years but I guess they had their reasons.

So my question is as follows: Is my 1940 D16 more Plymouth or Dodge? I am thinking its most likely a Plymouth with Dodge moulding, grill, and some interior refinements. I have a Dodge D14 parts book, should I be looking at a Plymouth book instead with regards to anything mechanical? A Plymouth in disguise?

Thanks in advance,

[Andydodge]

This should add to the confusion....lol........my 1940 Australian built Dodge.....Plymouth body,fenders,hood, head & tailights,bumpers........Dodge dash,grille,badges....and throw in a rear seat fold down armrest ala Chrysler........its a D15D(for deluxe)..........I've had it 40 yrs............regards, andyd

[Bill Kreiner]

Just thought I'd throw in a 1940 Aussie Dodge ute pic I had saved to my cluttered image folder -- not sure if it is Plymouth-based or not.

[B-Watson]

This forum has been great, providing me with invaluable info on my car. Only a few months back I was unaware that there was such a thing as a Plymouth Bodied Dodge aka Plodge. Crazy really that they had done that over the years but I guess they had their reasons.

So my question is as follows: Is my 1940 D16 more Plymouth or Dodge? I am thinking its most likely a Plymouth with Dodge moulding, grill, and some interior refinements. I have a Dodge D14 parts book, should I be looking at a Plymouth book instead with regards to anything mechanical? A Plymouth in disguise?

Thanks in advance,

Your D16 is basically a Plymouth with a Dodge grille, emblems and nameplates. But you have a Canadian-built Dodge / Plymouth so it has a Canadian 25 inch block engine and there are many unique pieces on your D16, which is a DeLuxe series by the way. Or if your body tag on the firewall has D16S you have the higher priced DeLuxe Special.

In any case, you need to get a Canadian parts book for 1940. As the D16 was a Canada-only model it will not be in any American Plymouth or Dodge book.

[Jim Benjaminson]

The 1940 Dodge Ute is basically a 1940 Plymouth - damn cute - wish it was in my garage!

[Andydodge]

That 1940 Dodge Ute lives in Brisbane, capital of Queensland and is quite a rare car.........I have only seen 1 other and it was burnt out in a wrecking yard 35yrs ago. It is basically the same as my 1940 Dodge Sedan except it has the ute body.......the fenders,hood,bumper,headlight surrounds are Plymouth but there is the Dodge grille and badges. Also note the small triangular dark spot on the side of the cowl halfway between the exposed door hinges(another difference the OZ 1940/41 Mopars have).......this is the TJ Richards badge that Oz mopars had from the mid 30's thru to the late 40's I think......have attached a pic of the 3 different badges/plates that were on Oz mopars at least up to WW2.......

The Harden & Johnston plate was usually on the door pillar, the TJ Richards rectangular plate was on the upper firewall on the US drivers side/Oz passenger side near where the body designation was also stamped into the sheetmetal.......my 1940 Dodge has "D15D" then the number "475" and finally the TJ Richards black enamelled badge that was always located on the passenger side of the cowl between the door hinges........regards, andyd

[Desotodav]

That white 40 Dodge ute belongs to Bruce. He has a few vehicles, including a nice later model Dodge (daily driver) truck. I'll actually see him again next week so I'll tell him that you all like his old ute.

Desotodav

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is a fine looking utility for sure...these would fit in in Georgia like a hand in a glove..

[eh dubya]

have attached a pic of the 3 different badges/plates that were on Oz mopars at least up to WW2.......

The Harden & Johnston plate was usually on the door pillar, the TJ Richards rectangular plate was on the upper firewall on the US drivers side/Oz passenger side near where the body designation was also stamped into the sheetmetal

Harden & Johnston being dealers one might also find another dealer such as York or Lane's Motors badge on the door post depending who sold it new.

Here are the others in situ on a 39 Plymouth

I wonder if this could be the same one back from the dead

-Andy

[Jim Benjaminson]

Have a daughter living in Brisbane - looking at going there next spring - maybe I can work in a visit to the Ute, too!

[Desotodav]

PM me before you get here Jim and I'll meet up with you and arrange a viewing of Bruce's ute. He lives only about 10 minutes up the road from my place. He had a couple of those 40 utes - one of them had a '5th wheel' caravan attached to it most of the time.

Desotodav

[1940dodge]

Love the UTE's. Those are something else indeed!

Thanks for the replies. So a Plymouth in disguise is what I thought. I would imagine that the D15 and D16 are very close. I think the D16 was called the Kingsway as per the attached pic.

[1940dodge]

1940 Plymouth Utility Sedan production at 589 units produced at a price of $699.

[RobertKB]

1940 Plymouth Utility Sedan production at 589 units produced at a price of $699.

I need some cash and a time machine. I would buy the lot and sell them off now.

[B-Watson]

Love the UTE's. Those are something else indeed!

Thanks for the replies. So a Plymouth in disguise is what I thought. I would imagine that the D15 and D16 are very close. I think the D16 was called the Kingsway as per the attached pic.

[/QUO

No, the Kingsway was the D15 which shared its interior with the Plymouth P9 Roadking. And the D15 was the Plymouth-based series exported to countries such as Australia.

The D16 was a Canada-only series sold as the DeLuxe series and D16S DeLuxe Special. The D16 shared its interior with the P10 Plymouth DeLuxe. The D16S shared its interior with the Canada-only P10S Custom.

The US-style D14 was the Custom. The D17 was not sold in Canada.

[Andydodge]

1940 Dodge............where did you get those production figures for the 1940 Plymouth Ute, also Oz had pounds,shillings & pence till 1966 so was that amount converted by you?.........neither here nor there...... but I would like to know if you have any more Oz production figures........thanks, Andy Douglas

[1940dodge]

Andy,

Found info on the Ute at the following:

www.allpar.com/trucks/plymouth/pt-4.html

Bill,

Thanks for pointing me on the right path. So the Plymouth Deluxe Series it is. My firewall plate is no longer there so I will have to look at what the differences were between the P10 and P10S to place my D16.

[Bill Kreiner]

The production figure of 589 utility sedans is for American 1940 utility sedans, NOT Australian utes. To my knowledge, no Australian Richards figures are extant.

[B-Watson]

The published production figures for Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler and Imperial are for car built in the U.S. and Canada. Before the introduction of the Chrysler Royal in Australia, all cars assembled / built in countries outside of Canada and the U.S. were either built on chassis shipped from Detroit or Windsor, or assembled from CKD units shipped from Detroit or Windsor.

Thus 1930's Australian production is included in Chrysler Corporation production figures, albeit under "chassis". Production at any plant in Europe was based on CKD units so that production is also included in Chrysler figures. However, detailed records on CKD and chassis shipments no longer exist.

For Australia, the local distributor / Richards would have kept records of how of each model were built, but those records are probably long gone.

For the 1940 Plymouth Utility Sedan, it was actually a 2-door sedan with the rear side windows stationary, no rear seat, no partition between the trunk and rear seat, and had a chicken-wire partition right behind the front seat with a sliding door on the passenger side. Except for the chicken-wire fence, very similar to the business coupe.

[Andydodge]

TJ Richards production figures are the holy grail of Oz mopar owners.........my understanding is that there was a fire in the factory in the late 40's which destroyed the records....happy to be proven wrong but haven't seen any quoted in 40 odd years.......Gavin Farmers book "Great Ideas in Motion" has figures for TJ Richards from 1946, I asked him about prewar figures when the book came out 18mths ago and he said they couldn't be found.........and Eddie Fords Oz Chrysler book that has been 15yrs in the making is at the proof reader stage......hopefully it might be out b4 Xmas...........I spoke to Eddie last week, he didn't specify which Xmas tho................lol...........and he hasn't got prewar mopar figures either......lol...........andyd

[1940dodge]

Sorry about the confusion. I did not realize that there was a difference between the Utility Sedan (Chicken Wire Partition, Who would have thought?) and the Utility Coupe. UTE is what they call a pick-up Down Under and in New Zealand...learning so much from our Commonwealth Brothers...lol

So back to the Utility Coupe (UTE). Is this one of those vehicles that were only produced on the vehicle chassis shipped across the pond or were they produced here in North Amarica? Would be interesting to know what sort of numbers were produced.

[Bill Kreiner]

Would you by any chance be able to scan the production figures pages or transcribe the 1946-1949 figures?

TJ Richards production figures are the holy grail of Oz mopar owners.........my understanding is that there was a fire in the factory in the late 40's which destroyed the records....happy to be proven wrong but haven't seen any quoted in 40 odd years.......Gavin Farmers book "Great Ideas in Motion" has figures for TJ Richards from 1946, I asked him about prewar figures when the book came out 18mths ago and he said they couldn't be found.........and Eddie Fords Oz Chrysler book that has been 15yrs in the making is at the proof reader stage......hopefully it might be out b4 Xmas...........I spoke to Eddie last week, he didn't specify which Xmas tho................lol...........and he hasn't got prewar mopar figures either......lol...........andyd

[Andydodge]

Bill, will see what I can do....1940Dodge.......whats your name?......lol.......Utes are called Utes, never called pickups.......pickups called that or small trucks, only chance of being called a ute would be if they had a bed stamped with the cab, if a separate bed them a pickup or truck.........Andy Douglas.....andyd.....andydodge......lol.....I answer to most things..

[1940dodge]

Well thanks for sorting me out once again!!! The Name is Roland Van Bergen. Live just outside Toronto On. Can. Born and raised in The Netherlands. I am an aircraft mechanic in the Can Air force. Have had the old Dodge for 16 yrs and thought I knew it all. Boy was I wrong! Enjoying the history lesson and taking it all in.

Went to the post office today and picked up the steering box parts. NOS Worm and tube (was not easy to find), sector shaft and new bearings and bushings. Off to work I go! Should be like new when I am done.

Roland.

[Bill Kreiner]

Thanks, Andy. Do you need any Ford or Holden figures? I have Holden body-delivery figures for the 1917-1949 (breakouts for 1927-1943) period, and I have 1925-1971 Aussie Ford sales figures by model.

Bill, will see what I can do....1940Dodge.......whats your name?......lol.......Utes are called Utes, never called pickups.......pickups called that or small trucks, only chance of being called a ute would be if they had a bed stamped with the cab, if a separate bed them a pickup or truck.........Andy Douglas.....andyd.....andydodge......lol.....I answer to most things..