Steering loose?

[Powerhouse]

Hello,

I have NO experience with steering gears and such. I think I may have a problem with my steering in my 39. When on the freeway it feel like I can move the steering wheel about 8 inches before affecting the direction of the car. It is quite a pain to drive on freeways because of this. Very annoying. I have new radials tires and it doesn't seem much different than the old bias plys at high speeds. They do not grab the ruts or lines in the road though.

Any idea what this could be. Thanks.

I am thinking of rebuilding whatever I can in the steering box....but that will be like opening up a can of worms I fear. Pun intended.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Powerhouse

[Rusty O'Toole]

That's not bad. Old cars had less precise steering than today's cars even when new.

Have your front end checked and worn parts replaced. Have an alignment done. Chances are there is nothing much wrong.

It is possible to adjust the steering box if it is worn but you must use the procedure detailed in the factory repair manual. Otherwise you could cause excess wear down the road.

[Andydodge]

Apart from checking all the tie rod ends, the various suspension pins/bushes & steering box also check the steering box mount.....there is a rubber isolator that goes between the box & chassis that gets affected by oil etc & dissintergrates over time..........andyd

[greg g]

Check to see if there is a rubber isolator pad between the steering box and the frame. Not sure there is on ealrlier cars, but they deteriorate and allow the box to move in relation to the frame before they move the sterring linkage. There is also an adjustment tat can be made on the top of the box that will take up some slack between the worm and sector gears. And also if the bushing for the gears wear that can induce some slop there as well.

[littlemo]

Ok, where is the "did you try the thread search first? Lots of info there!!" I'm really surprised that hasn"t been posted yet. lol, Cass, alias littlemo.

[Powerhouse]

well...hahaha...I normally do check first but am at work and figured I should ask and see what pointers and help I can get when I get home after work.

As it is I shouldn't be checking the forum so much. Kind of a slow day today though.

Thanks for all the pointers so far.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Powerhouse

[Powerhouse]

I will give this a good read and figure it out...

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/028/Cover.htm

[Rodney Bullock]

If you have never adjusted your "freeplay" in the steering his is a good time to learn. Jack the car up so the front wheels are off the ground. Then using a large flat head screw driver and a wrench loosen the nut on top of the box(seen in your pic) then turn the large screw a half turn at a time. from the outside of your car turn your steering wheel from right to left. Now please don't take all the play out of the steering wheel, two to three inches should be enough. Causion, if you do not jack the car up for the adjustment you will ruin the sector shaft. You can't have any weight on the front wheels. If you are not confident with the procedure get someone to do it for you.

[Rusty O'Toole]

You must adjust the steering box by the factory recommended method. On later vehicles this involves an inch pound torque wrench. I did mine "by eye" and the steering box wore out in 2 months.

[james49ply]

if the tie rods and all accosiated it good with no play then the gearbox is out of adjustment. the pitman shaft has to be centered, jack up front wheels, to to right till it hits the stop, then turn to the left and count the turns to the left stop, divid by two and turn wheel to center, that is the "high" point on the sector shaft gear, drop the front end to the ground, check for play in the wheel, should have no more that 1" at the wheel. To reduce the play, loosen the nut around the srew on the top of the gearbox, use screwdriver to hold the screw from turning, turn srew to the right to reduce play, when set correctly, hold the srew stationary with srewdriver to prevent it from turning while you tighten the locknut. at this point the box is donr, but you must make sure that the wheels are pointed exectly straight ahead, if not the tie rod ends must be adjusted. The gearbox is designed to have a an area that is more resistant when driving straight, loos when turning (makes turn at slow speeds easier).

[Rodney Bullock]

It's been a long time since I have done mine James is right on. you have to center the wheels. Counting the turns left to right to get to center I forgot that. I saw that torque thing in a book I never could find one. Mine was not to bad when I did it. It was real easy. I had my cars front end rebuilt and all parts were in perfect condition. The one thing that I insisted on was when I made wide turns was that the wheel returned to center when I let it go. There can't be any movement in the box to frame conection. good luck

[Powerhouse]

so far I replaced the pads...they were toast. New pads from bbaums...were $35...but the dang things were not made correctly for my 39. The insulation collars were on the wrong side...so i cut them off...works fine.

WHAT a difference that made! I will rebuild the thing tonite hopefully. I bought the two bearings/races, seals & 2 bushings as well in a kit.

That should be fun.

[Powerhouse]

I took out the whole thing last night. What a pain. Had to jack the front end up as much as possible and twist and turn the assembly in just the right way to clear the suspension.

Looked ok...what a nasty caked up greasy mess...inside and out. I even found an IRON CROSS stamped into the case underneath...next to the DCPD.hahaha Top bearing and race were worn a little. Replaced them and other bearings/seals. Sector gear had some washer shims around it. I tightened all down nicely without adjustment screw in. Had to add one thin shim to free up worm gear just right.

Installed and adjusted screw...but still has a little play at each stop(extreme right or left)...is that normal? I wonder if those shims around sector gear should be lessened. There were quite a few. Maybe that would let the sector meet the worm a bit sooner. I have not tested since not all back in car yet. I figure I can do that with it installed.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Powerhouse

[TodFitch]

I took out the whole thing last night. What a pain. Had to jack the front end up as much as possible and twist and turn the assembly in just the right way to clear the suspension.

Looked ok...what a nasty caked up greasy mess...inside and out. I even found an IRON CROSS stamped into the case underneath...next to the DCPD.hahaha Top bearing and race were worn a little. Replaced them and other bearings/seals. Sector gear had some washer shims around it. I tightened all down nicely without adjustment screw in. Had to add one thin shim to free up worm gear just right.

Installed and adjusted screw...but still has a little play at each stop(extreme right or left)...is that normal? I wonder if those shims around sector gear should be lessened. There were quite a few. Maybe that would let the sector meet the worm a bit sooner. I have not tested since not all back in car yet. I figure I can do that with it installed.

If it is like the steering box in my old Plymouth, and it sounds pretty similar, then there should be a little play when at each stop. Not too long ago someone on either this or the car side posted a link to a Chrysler info guide for mechanics, etc. that explained that...

[Powerhouse]

thanks. It seems like that play might be helpful in the free spin back of the steering wheel. Along with the high point on the worm gear.

[Rusty O'Toole]

They are made to be tight when in the straight ahead position but a little loose when turned left or right. There are 2 reasons for this.

One is, the steering does not wander when driving straight and it reduces friction effort when turning.

The other is, when the steering wears, it wears in the straight ahead position which is where it gets the most use. So you can tighten up the adjustment and it will not be too tight when turned away from straight. Even though there is less wear there.

To get the best results and prevent excess wear you should follow the factory method for adjusting the free play. I don't have a manual from 1939 but can give you the procedure from 1950 if you like.

[Powerhouse]

Thanks much for the replies all. Very helpfull as usual.

The procedure for a 39 steering adjustment is pretty much the same as new years...but there are variously sized shims around the base of the sector gear assembly/steering shaft(whatever you prefer) that need to be removed in order to get a tighter adjustment when the worm wears down. Judging from the caked up grease that was almost as hard as a thick rubber pad that steering shaft has never been out. The shims were pretty much fused to the case with hardened "lubricant". I took one out and did the adjustment. Took about Half of the play out! So no it's down to abut 3 to 4" of play at steering wheel. It used to have closer to 8 inches of play when I actually measured it.

I noticed I have tire wear on the inner tread. I wonder if that has to do with the slop I took out of the steering. Everything was replaced before I bought the car. But who knows if it was done correctly.

[Andydodge]

Tyre wear could be toe in/toe out adjustment, how long since it has had a wheel alignment?......I'd get one done asap as very few miles can chew up tyres quick........I speak from exp here....lol.........andyd

[Powerhouse]

never since I've had it...and that's about 10 years or so. I wonder if anyone can do them around here?