opinions on what drivetrain I should use

[norville]

Hello again all, I'm looking for opinion and insight on two drives line for a 51 dodge coupe.

The drivetrain in it has unknown miles , Runs great, no smoke. Most like rebuilt once in it's lifetime. The fuid drive 3 speed is having some shifting issues between 2-3 maybe a syncro or linkage. It will need exhaust work.

The "new" drive train I picked is a 46-48 plymouth, most likely a 218. It has an edelbrock head, Edmunds dual carb setup with a pair of B&B's and cast dual exhaust. The tranny is a non fluid drive 3sp OD R-7. It was supposed to be pulled from a running vehicle last year. It looks 99% complete. I do no know the mileage but I pulled the exhaust and intake and it looks clean in there.

I had two thoughts, pull the entire dodge driveline and swap complete for the plymouth. Do exhaust (have to anyway), driveshaft mod, possible pilot bushing issue, and linkage mods.

Or slowly over this spring move over the performance parts and next winter swap over the tranny. Will I be giving up any seat of the pants feeling from the 230 to the 218. I'm only assuming the plymouth is a 218 I cannot check unless I pull the head. Again exhaust, linkage and driveshaft.

I'd really like to get seat time before it's all torn apart. There are a few items I would need to address immediately. That's before any of these engine mods take place, it does need an exhaust.

thanks

bob

[Young Ed]

The tricky part will be with the fluid drive and you'll have that problem with either engine unless you move the crossmember and use the entire plymouth setup.

[hkestes41]

I have no experience with the fluid drive so can't help you there, but on your question of "seat of the pants" difference in the 230 to a 218 ABSOLUTELY.

As long as both are in similar state of wear / repair there is a noticable difference in the performance of the 230 compared to the 218.

[norville]

OK I'm armchair quarter backing here and from my reading the Plymouth and dodge have different mounting hole locations on the bellhousing. I understand the dodge fluid drive bells are much longer. It sounds like its not just a matter of moving the dodge mount forward...hmmm that a bit disappointing. It's tempting to just move to a T5 or I have a few ford toploader OD's here...

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=9767&highlight=crossmember

I'll have to head to the junk yard and look around. Any idea what years I'll need?

thanks

bob

[Young Ed]

I think you can just move the dodge mount forward. You have another option to transfer the speed parts to the 230 and then convert the OD to a fluid drive input shaft.

[norville]

I think you can just move the dodge mount forward. You have another option to transfer the speed parts to the 230 and then convert the OD to a fluid drive input shaft.

I did consider that but felt it was a little to advanced for me... I've never pulled one of those trannys apart. I'll start looking up info on that. It may be a good option.

I read some folks were having issues with ECI dual master cylinder conversion and fitting it in the same spot with the fluid drive? Is that true? I have to do the rubber lines on it and thought about doing discs but the price is adding up. I will do a dual master. I just don't trust single pots..

[Alshere59]

My two cents which is all it is worth. After looking at all of your posts as I was looking for information as to your location. The easiest route and cheapest. Swap out the speed goodies IE: Head dual carb's and split exhaust and lose the fluid drive. A bird in the hand so to speak in regards to your current engine.

I would keep the fluid drive other than the concerns about the dual pot mc and also the shifting you mentioned in another thread. Both of which I can offer no advice on.

George Asche would have good input and he is in Pennsylvania. (LOCATION). Drive shaft may be an issue for length. Looking at your other posts I would give him a call regardless of location though.

He can answer your shifting issue and the proper lube for the overdrive, swapping the input shaft etc etc.

Anyway sounds like you are doing your research so make the best choice on where that leads you.

I was just think a 230 running well would run better with the speed parts you mentioned. Although without checking the stroke do you really know it is a 218 and how it runs and so on.

So a definite maybe from me. Then again what is two cents worth in todays economy.

Al

Edited February 15, 2012 by Alshere59

[norville]

I agree on all points there Al. I won't know if the 218 is a 218 until I pull the head. I need an exhaust so I might as well do the duals and hopefully only do it once. I know, I know a lot of questions , I'm just trying to wrap my head around it all.. And I will have to get a hold of George , unfortunately he's about 5 hours away I'm in the north East.

PO stated the car is drivable but grinds between 3-2. I figured I'd kill two birds one stone, good tranny and OD.

I think I need to concentrate on the brakes, suspension and exhaust. Make it road worthy and worry about the rest later. It's an easy job swapping intakes. I live near a antique junk yard maybe I will find something there. I know there's a few OD tranny's laying around there's also a van full of driveshafts..

[Young Ed]

FYI the OD and the gyromatic are close enough in length to use the same driveshaft. Dad and I did the swap for someone in our club with a 51 dodge club coupe.

[Niel Hoback]

You can tell a 230 from a 218 without removing the head by measuring the stroke through the hole in the head over number 6. Take out the 1/8 pipe plug and use a piece of wire to measure with.

[norville]

You can tell a 230 from a 218 without removing the head by measuring the stroke through the hole in the head over number 6. Take out the 1/8 pipe plug and use a piece of wire to measure with.

Good Idea Niel, but It has an aftermarket head on it, no pipe plug hole.

[norville]

From my reading , it looks as if the fluid drive and overdrive input shafts will swap as long as they are both pre mid 50's. As long as they have the same syncro style pin vs strut.

I'll have to pull the cove off this OD unit again and look at it. Maybe that is the solution I'm looking for. I'll start picking through the classifieds for a fluid drive unit someone will pull apart for me. I think I need the strut style.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Everything else being equal I would swap over the complete engine/trans assembly.

This assumes it is in good running order. I would not mess with it. The hopped up engine and overdrive is a great combination.

It would be easier than swapping everything piece by piece plus you know all the parts are set up to work together.

[norville]

I know we all like pics, here's a pic of the "new" engine and my messy garage. North East winters....

I'm racking my brain and burning up bandwidth trying to find an off the shelf solution for the exhaust.. I cannot believe the online stores selling cast headers do not have a set of collectors for them? What are people using? or do you just take it to a muffle shop? I know there's not to many places near me that will deal with it. I'm hoping to find a set of 90's I can bolt on and work my way back..

[martybose]

I know we all like pics, here's a pic of the "new" engine and my messy garage. North East winters....

I'm racking my brain and burning up bandwidth trying to find an off the shelf solution for the exhaust.. I cannot believe the online stores selling cast headers do not have a set of collectors for them? What are people using? or do you just take it to a muffle shop? I know there's not to many places near me that will deal with it. I'm hoping to find a set of 90's I can bolt on and work my way back..

For my cast-iron headers we just burned out a pair of thick 2-bolt flanges, bought a tight U-bend which we cut in half and welded to the new flanges and then drove to the muffler shop to have them do the rest ........

Marty

[hkestes41]

Here you can see how mine is done. Langdon's Stovebolts sells the cast headers and here is the verbage from their site.

Fits ALL Plymouth and Dodge Flathead Six Engines. Includes "no weld design" flange and seal kit. Made from ductile iron. Equal front and rear outlet size.

The flange and seal kit is what is on mine. Since you already have the headers Tom may be willing to sell you just the flange and seal kit. then you just have your muffler shop provide a flared down pipe and pull it tight with the flange and donut seal.

[norville]

Marty that was my original plan. And hkestes41 , I think I will do that. Excellent. Thank you both. Still I had the same issue with other header car. Maybe I should start bending and flaring some 90's and make some cash...

[james curl]

Check with a good muffler shop for the flanges, they appear to be the same as my 55 Chevy I/6 235 cu in pick up. Chevy used that style of flange with the do nut seal and a flared inlet pipe. If that is where you end up using the chevy have the muffler man make an insert that goes up into your manifold a short distance and into the down pipe for the do nut to center on so that it does not get cocked and leak.

[norville]

Finding a good muffler shop is part of the issue. Mostly big chain stores or guys just don't want to deal with them with all the emission crap ect...

Any one know which input shaft type this is in my OD tranny? I cannot tell?