Side covers idea... opinions?

[rearview]

I've been thinking of machining some covers similar to the ones pictured below, but with Plymouth or Dodge logo or script instead of the fins, also wanting to make them seal with o-rings. Pic stolen from ebay auction.

any opinions?

Bob

[Justin Slingsby]

I would spring for a set. How bout a set with the clipper ship in them?

[Norm's Coupe]

Bob,

I thought about buying a pair of those from Phillips Performance. They do look sharp. However, once the engine is in the car you can't see the covers anyway with the manifolds in front of them. So still running with the originals. Just painted them.

[rearview]

Mine are kinda banged up and figure the aluminum will seal it better than the sheetmetal.

[Norm's Coupe]

As long as you need new ones anyway, why not make them like you want. I'm sure if you made a few extras others would buy them too.

[bob westphal]

What Norm says is very true. Side covers are hardly visable. However, There are those who like detail. Many, including me, give attention to details that will never be seen by anyone except the guy that did it and the guy that takes it apart. I put a chrome fuel pump on my P-15 and I use a heat shield to protect it from the exhaust. No one that has looked at my engine realizes that it's chrome. I restored a '35 PJ sedan about 7 years ago. I highly detailed the chassis by powdercoating the complete chassis and gold cadmium plating all the hardware. It took 3 weeks for me get the courage to cover up that work of art with the body. No body even looks underneath the car even at shows. Not even the owner!

That said, I'd be interested in set of side covers if you ever make them.

Bob

[Norm's Coupe]

What Norm says is very true. Side covers are hardly visable. However, There are those who like detail. Many, including me, give attention to details that will never be seen by anyone except the guy that did it and the guy that takes it apart. I put a chrome fuel pump on my P-15 and I use a heat shield to protect it from the exhaust. No one that has looked at my engine realizes that it's chrome. I restored a '35 PJ sedan about 7 years ago. I highly detailed the chassis by powdercoating the complete chassis and gold cadmium plating all the hardware. It took 3 weeks for me get the courage to cover up that work of art with the body. No body even looks underneath the car even at shows. Not even the owner!

That said, I'd be interested in set of side covers if you ever make them.

Bob

Bob, Detail is nice. In fact that is one thing that sold me on the ECI disc brake system, other than it was a direct bolt on application. I liked the aluminum hubs that came with it. When I opened the box they really looked sharp. Got them on the car and really dressed it up. However, no one will ever see them. They are covered with the wheel and hubcap Felt like I was committing a sin by covering them up. But, I know they're there.

[Norm's Coupe]

Shel,

When I was still running with the drum brakes, I did not paint the drums or backing plates. Just cleaned them off. One day my brother in law who is also in the hobby was standing in the garage and we were talking. Wheel was turned on the coupe and you could see the backing plate if you looked hard enough. Brother in law said, "you should paint those." Ask why and he said they would look better. Then ask him who was going to look at them to see if they were painted. He said he did and looked at others too. Told him if he didn't want to see unpainted, dirty backing plates and drums that he should not look. Problem solved. Looking pretty doesn't make it run any better.

[martybose]

Bob' date=' Detail is nice. In fact that is one thing that sold me on the ECI disc brake system, other than it was a direct bolt on application. I liked the aluminum hubs that came with it. When I opened the box they really looked sharp. Got them on the car and really dressed it up. However, no one will ever see them. They are covered with the wheel and hubcap.[/quote']

Could you find out what the distance is from the wheel mounting surface to the top of the dust cap? One of my detail complaints about my car is that I had to punch a hole in the center of my front hubcaps (not OEM) to clear the OEM dust cap; I'm wondering if the ECI one would be short enough to fit under the cap?

I suppose I should also ask if the wheel mounting surface is in the same location as it is on a drum brake car; I've heard that some disk brake kits move the wheel outboard from original.

Marty

[Norm's Coupe]

Can't answer the question about the hubcap. Could not use the original type wheels after installing the disc brakes. Would not fit over caliper. So now I have wheels from Wheel Vintique on it. Also the dust cap is from ECI. Cannot use the original dust/grease cap on the ECI hub.

The ECI hubs will move the wheels about 1/2 inch out from the original position. Not enough to notice when looking at the car.

[martybose]

Can't answer the question about the hubcap. Could not use the original type wheels after installing the disc brakes. Would not fit over caliper. So now I have wheels from Wheel Vintique on it. Also the dust cap is from ECI. Cannot use the original dust/grease cap on the ECI hub.

The ECI hubs will move the wheels about 1/2 inch out from the original position. Not enough to notice when looking at the car.

The reason I'm asking is that I am using a 6 X 15 Wheel Vintiques Rally wheel with their flatter stainless hubcaps; I'm curious if the hubcaps will clear using the ECI hub.

I'll have to see if I have enough clearance with the wheel moved out half an inch.

Marty

[Norm's Coupe]

Marty,

I'm using 5 X 15" steel Vintique's. That really should not make a difference though since the hub will still stick through the wheel the same distance. I am not using the Vintique moons on my coupe. I'm using the Fiesta 55 Olds spinner type hubcap. They are flat in the center and I don't have a problem with those. I know those Vintique baby moons look a little flatter to the wheel than my hubcaps do though.

If you don't mind waiting a few days I'll pull one off the front wheel and measure out from the wheel to the end of the dust cap for you over the weekend. I bought a set of 53 Plymouth full wheel hubcaps and want to try one on anyway.

I know what you are talking about now. My brother in law bought a set of 55 or 56 Olds hubcaps (the kind with a bunch of circles in it). Tried to put them on his 38 Ford Coupe and the hub stuck out too far on the rears, so he can't use them now. They fit the front fine, just won't fit the rear, hits the dust cap.

Don't know if measuring your stock hub will help much in a comparison to the ECI hub. I think that difference is in the rear of the hub, not the outside. It's that way so the rotor will line up with the bracket and caliper behind the hub. Actually, I think the 1/2" is combined for both wheels. The brackets are only about 1/4" thick. That's why the hub gets moved out.

[martybose]

Marty' date='

If you don't mind waiting a few days I'll pull one off the front wheel and measure out from the wheel to the end of the dust cap for you over the weekend. I bought a set of 53 Plymouth full wheel hubcaps and want to try one on anyway.

(snip)

Don't know if measuring your stock hub will help much in a comparison to the ECI hub. I think that difference is in the rear of the hub, not the outside. It's that way so the rotor will line up with the bracket and caliper behind the hub. Actually, I think the 1/2" is combined for both wheels. The brackets are only about 1/4" thick. That's why the hub gets moved out.[/quote']

Norm, I'd really appreciate that measurement. I'm hoping that if the hub is spaced out 1/4" or 1/2", with presumably the outer bearing in the same place on the spindle, that the height from the mounting surface to the cap top will be shorter, and my hubcap would clear. Got my fingers crossed!

Marty

[randroid]

Norm.

I disagree with you about clean not running better, and here is my argument; I would welcome your response.

From when I began seriously working on machinery (US NAvy; MM2) I was taught to keep stuff clean. Partially because on clean machinery you can easily find oil leaks or other problems because the surface matal wasn't hidden under dirt and other colors. It worked well for me and my crew because a visual inspection became an accurate analisis of what whas going on, and we rarely had a major breakdown. You must appreciate that I was in the "Gator Navy" and it was the bottom wrung of everybody's ladder which translated into budgets allotted for those ships not anticipating a major breakdown, but because we were driving WWII relics during 'Nam they weren't considered to be worth much. Keeping everything clean allowed us to make a first-best-guess as to what was going to go next.

I married the daughter of a guy who built NASCAR-class engines as a sideline, and he told me the same thing; "Paint your engine any color you want but never paint anything black because you won't see the oil leaks".

I have been teased by friends for being the only person to wash his hands before working on an engine, but for some reason my engines last. Perhaps it is some form of Kharma but a clean engine runs better. Removing grease from the blow-by tube won't buy you a new set of points but if, as was current thought during the 50' & 60's, a half-inch of grease on the block would make that engine last longer, don't you feel an engineer would have come up with that instead of shipping them clean? They'd last longer and engineering costs would drop dramatically.

I'm not trying to stir a nest. This is my opinion, my experience, and my training, but I do not feel so close minded as to regect a good arguement to the contrary. Besides, it's my 100th post and I want to make it a good one.

-Randy

[Plymouthy Adams]

I worked DOD Navy for number of years till BRAC closed the placed..now am DOD Air Force..anyway to the point...we had two sayings, number one.

You can always tell a sailor...but you can't tell him much

and when something was broke the answer was:

Its been sailorized...

Now before you get upset..remember..this is only said jokenly..the guys did a remarkable job keeping the ships and equipment, operational, clean and safe. Their work day was more than I would want to mess with and not only did they know their job..they also had to know a lot about everyone elses. It was all about damage control. Just trying to stay on top of corrosion on a ship is enough to send you off the deep end. It is a very hostile enviroment toward machinery. You did good sailor....

[Norm's Coupe]

Randy,

I was in the Army myself. Don't want to start a war between the service branches here, just making a point. When I came home from Korea in 1963, we came home on a troop ship, the USS Mitchell. Stopped in Japan to pick up supplies. The day after leaving Japan the ship started taking on water, then one or more of the pumps stopped working. By the time we came into San Francisco under the Golden Gate, there was about 1" of water on the floor in our bunking area. We had already moved our duffle bags out of the hole about a week before that. By the time we got to San Francisco we had to store them on the bottom bunks to keep them dry. Now, if that wasn't enough. As we were getting our stuff ready to get off the ship, this Ensign comes in with his white gloves on and says; "Before anyone gets off this ship, this area has to be clean and spotless." Needless to say all of us Army guys just looked at him as if he were nuts. I believe we even made the same comment out loud. Something to the effect, it's his ship not ours. And........we got off the ship and left all that water there. We wasn't about to clean that mess up.

Now, when that ship arrived in Korea to pick us up, we had to wait for two weeks before we could leave. Why, because it blew a boiler on the way to Korea. You'd think they would have checked for leaks since the ship was down for two weeks anyway, before starting back to the states.

Anyway, that's my experience with naval maintenance.

As for those backing plates, I did say they I had cleaned them. They just weren't painted. Here's my engine. Again though. The paint didn't make it run better, just look pretty. It's all new inside and that's what made it run better.

[BloodyKnuckles]

I have 2 sets of side plates from a company called "Vintage Speed". What I did was paint them copper and buff off the top edges.

I woud be interested in a set with Plymouth script. One thing I would take into concideration is a sealing method. I sealed mine with gasket goo. It seals fine but if I could make thes I would cut a groove on the backside around the entire dege and recess a rubber gasket similar to a large "O" ring.

Keep us up to date if you plan on making these.

BloodyKnuckles

[jd52cranbrook]

Very cool engine bay. I have never seen a intake manifold quite like that. Do you warm the fuel mixture somehow?

[rearview]

Does anybody have a good black and white of a Dodge script, Plymouth script, and the clipper? I can vector the drawings and convert to code for the cnc. Lets give this a whirl.

Either send link or email to zpsbob@hotmail.com or bob@zpsusa.com

thanks

Bob

[Fireball]

You can load Dodge and Plymouth fonts from here

http://www.sharkshock.com/fonts/fontsaut.html

[Plymouthy Adams]

NORM...bad experience for sure, that is why these ships need YARD PERIODS and normally scheduled overhauls..the ocean is a nasty enviroment..and as you may have noticed in just the short time you were on the boat all the things that happen..this is a daily job for the sailor..I tell you of all the services..this would be my last choice...(was going to volunteer for submarine till I got a chance to go onboard one pierside) the background noise was enough to tell me no way. A sailors job is never done and for taking on water..well, they did get you home..lol...wern't many service stations bwtween Korea and USA either..not like you can stop, jack it up and put a patch on the bottom. I did my active duty time US Army and then later retired US AF Reserves....I worked these vessel both submarine and surface ships for 16 years...never ever rode one out of the harbor..had no desire to..not a boat person really...I think my dad rode every submarines' first dive out of overhaul for many many years..just was not my cup of tea.

[Norm's Coupe]

Tim,

We knew we were in trouble on the Mitchell right after leaving Japan. We had just finished eating and a few of us were just standing talking in a gangway outside the galley, by the doors (hatch I guess) where they take on supplies. All of a sudden, water came splashing through the seams. Yep that old tug got us home in one piece. However I think I did hear that that ship only made one more trip and it was then retired. Now, going to Korea in 1962 was a different story, that was a nice fairly new ship, USS Patrick. Really enjoyed being out in the middle of the Pacific sitting on deck listing to the waves. Was a nice cruise. Only bad experience on that trip was, we hit a typhoon and had to cut engines and drift with the waves for about 12 to 24 hours. Put us off course a little and rocked the ship pretty good.

[bob westphal]

Hey Bloody,

What the heck is that you have in the spark plug sockets?

[1just4don]

There was a talk show host a few years back. He once had a interest in engine cleaning company that took the thick crud off OLD motors and cleaned them up,,,running wise. I think it may have been a detailing biz . "HE" said they never ever seemed to run the same AFTER taking the crud layer off. Now I am far from an expert and like to see a clean engine too,,,but MAYBE this was due to squirting water in and around the electrical parts,,mostly the distribtor, but the coil connections and wiring harness connections too.

I had a car recently they washed off to find the source of a major leak. had to do serious work and replacement of electrical parts to get it running again. It makes me skittesh to get deliberate water anywhere near stuff I cant see and dont know where its going,,,,I know,,,I know we all drive them in the rain and it gets everywhere,,,but MUST not be quite the same!! OR is it the hard water deposits that come out of well water?? Minerals etc??? I dunno, Still more questions than answers!!

[BloodyKnuckles]

Very cool engine bay. I have never seen a intake manifold quite like that. Do you warm the fuel mixture somehow?

No I don't but have concidered it. I drive it through the winters here and haven't had any issues with it. I may hook into the water pump and wrap the runners to see if it makes a difference.

BloodyKnuckles