krap

[Don Coatney]

I was told the big chamber supplies the front disc brakes and the small chamber does the rear drums. That is how I plumbed it.

[steveplym]

Sounds right to me Don. Good luck, you have had more patience in this than I would have had. My hat is off to ya!

[William Davey]

Don,

I admire your perseverance and problem solving on this project. I have a question though, how do you activate your brake lights?

On the topic of hydraulic fittings, I have had good luck with heavy equipment suppliers. Not for automotive brake lines, but hydraluics for power trim cylinders for a boat. The local Case tractor place made hoses for me with metric fittings at the pump end and standard US fittings at the other end for about $20 each hose. The best NAPA could do was 7 fittings in a row that were sure to leak.

[Don Coatney]

Don,

I admire your perseverance and problem solving on this project. I have a question though, how do you activate your brake lights?

Read this thread.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=23063&highlight=switch

[martybose]

Well, I continue to benefit from Don's travails. I pulled out my original master cylinder yesterday, cleaned everything up and trial fitted my pedals. My observations are as follows:

1. I have exactly the same side clearance issues that Don mentioned, so I have ordered the same oilite bushing from McMaster-Carr. I actually ordered several of them, so if anyone needs any I can save you some shipping costs.

2. I've been mystified by the need to drill an extra hole for the third mounting bolt, so I started measuring the holes. What do you know, the 3 existing holes perfectly match the OEM master cylinder IF IT WAS MOUNTED BACKWARDS. I think we have a design failure in progress! So I'm taking my mount to work to have another piece of steel welded on and drill it to mount using all three of the OEM mounting locations. I'm also going to add the stops for both pedals just like Don did. Once it is completed I'll be documenting everything and sending it to ECI.

3. Lastly, one of Don's comments caught me by surprise. He had to take the pin on the OEM brake pedal off again to add the connection point for the return spring. This was news to me, because my car has never had anything there! I'm guessing that it got lost during the engine swap (or was never there at all), and I didn't know it. So I'm wondering if anyone has a parts car that they could get the eyelet and the spring off of, and tell me where the other end connects? I've got a lot of OEM front brake parts to trade!

Marty

[Don Coatney]

2. I've been mystified by the need to drill an extra hole for the third mounting bolt,

Once it is completed I'll be documenting everything and sending it to ECI.

Marty;

When I questioned ECI about drilling the new hole I was told that the factory mounting with one hole in the front and two in the rear was poor engineering as all the flexing will occur in the front. To this I say BS. Good luck on communicating to ECI that there "kit" needs improvement. They are not very receptive to us non engineers telling them what is wrong. You are lucky to have welders and fabricators at your disposal. You will need them when it is time to modify your floor panel.

[Don Coatney]

This morning I completed (hopefully) the floor pan modifications necessary to access the new master cylinder. I thought abought hinging the trap door but elected to bolt it down using self taping sheet metal screws. I also installed a new gas pedal grommet purchased from Neil Riddle last week.

[Chester Brzostowski]

Don,

Just an FYI, I spoke with Ralf today and canceled the duel master setup. Apparently this setup will not work unless you put ECI’s disk break kit in your car. I wanted to keep the stock brakes and use the duel master for safety purposes only.., but there is no solution for this type of setup.

I hope you have better luck. Ralf got a little miffed when I told him that I would rather cancel the order then work on a solution in that I preferred to be the second recipient rather then the experimental first. He responded that if he designed it you could bet your life on it. Working with engineers all these years I choose to pass on the bet.

Good luck with your setup,

Chet…

[james curl]

I wonder why he could not find an early drum/drum dual master cylinder that would work, such as the 68 Camaro? I have a dual drum/drum master cylinder that was furnished with a bracket that I bought for my 55 Chevy pick up, not sure what it came from.

Edited September 3, 2010 by james curl
addition

[Don Coatney]

Yesterday I buttoned everything up, put the wheels back on, and drove around the block a couple of times. First couple of stops the rear drums locked up. Then everything seemed to balance out for the next couple of stops as all 4 wheels appeared to be working correctly locking all 4 when I did a test panic stop. Pedal was about 1/2 down initially. But then after every stop the pedal kept getting closer to the top. After a dozen or so stops I had no free play in the pedal at all and the wheels were severly binding as the brakes would not release when I took my foot off the pedal. I drove the last 1/2 block home in first gear as the car would stop as soon as I pushed the clutch pedal to the floor. Parked it in the garage and gave up for the day. This morning I checked it and the pedal once again felt normal and the brakes were no longer locked up. But that is all I did to the car today.

I believe I have a bleed back problem but I am not sure exactly how to correct it. When I bought this kit from ECI I told them that I had installed the PLYDO front disc conversion and I was running an upgraded rear end from a 74 Charger with drum brakes. I also told them I had installed the appropriate PLYDO recommended residual valves (blue to the front, red to the rear) and I had been successfully using this PLYDO system for several years. They assured me the master cylinder I installed would work with my existing setup. I followed the ECI installation guide to the letter. I adjusted the master cylinder push rod to insure I had "free" play when the pedal was at the top most position. I also made sure I had ample pedal travel to bottom out the master cylinder piston when the pedal was pushed all the way to the floor. I also bench bled the master cylinder and I am sure there is no air in the system.

I probably should have called ECI today for there recommendation but I did not. Most likely I will not be able to reach them until Tuesday next week due to the holiday. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should try next? I suspect the Mustang master cylinder I installed still has the factory residual valves in place and that may be my problem. I may no longer need the external residual valves but it sure would have been nice if ECI would have told me that. All suggestions are welcome.

[PatS....]

Would this help??

http://www.mpbrakes.com/uploads/documents/underfloorpdf.pdf

Main Page Tech Help

http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-support/configurations.cfm

Edited September 4, 2010 by PatS....

[Don Coatney]

Would this help??

http://www.mpbrakes.com/uploads/documents/underfloorpdf.pdf

Main Page Tech Help

http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-support/configurations.cfm

Thanks Pat;

That appears to be the exact way I have my system plumbed.

[martybose]

When I was talking to them about what I wanted, ECI said that I would not need a rear residual valve because the master cylinder had one, but that I would need their holdoff valve. He explained that it is one of the functions normally in a combo valve. The holdoff valve goes in the front brake line (AFTER the front residual valve, which is needed), and what it does is prevent the front brakes from getting any pressure until there is about 100 pounds in the line, since that is what it takes to get most drum brakes to contact the drum. He said that without it the front brakes would start working with any pressure, and the rears wouldn't even be contacting the drum. With the holdoff valve the back brakes are engaged before the fronts, which he said is much safer.

YMMV, of course.

BTW, if anyone else is having problems with the fact that one of the master cylinder connections takes a larger 1/2-20 IFF fitting instead of the more standard 3/8-24 IFF fitting, I found a solution. Dorman makes a nifty brass adapter that is a 1/2-20 IFF male to a 3/8-24 IFF female, so that you can use a standard 3/8-24 brake line. Dorman part number 43390. I bought a box of 5 for $27 delivered from Rock Auto, and only need 2, so I have some available if anyone needs one.

Marty

[Don Coatney]

When I was talking to them about what I wanted, ECI said that I would not need a rear residual valve because the master cylinder had one, but that I would need their holdoff valve. He explained that it is one of the functions normally in a combo valve. The holdoff valve goes in the front brake line (AFTER the front residual valve, which is needed), and what it does is prevent the front brakes from getting any pressure until there is about 100 pounds in the line, since that is what it takes to get most drum brakes to contact the drum. He said that without it the front brakes would start working with any pressure, and the rears wouldn't even be contacting the drum. With the holdoff valve the back brakes are engaged before the fronts, which he said is much safer.

Marty

Thanks Marty;

That may be my problem. I wonder why they did not tell me that?

[faucet47custom]

Don, I have been reading this thread religously. I am installing one of Olddaddy's disc brake kits on my D24 and will be uprgrading the rest of the system as well. I have learned a lot but have also decided to contact MP Brakes about my setup. Look forward to reading as you finish this setup so I can take lots of notes and minimize some of the issues you have come across.

I have some questions about that but I will start a new thread on that.

[Don Coatney]

Don, I have been reading this thread religously. I am installing one of Olddaddy's disc brake kits on my D24 and will be uprgrading the rest of the system as well. I have learned a lot but have also decided to contact MP Brakes about my setup. Look forward to reading as you finish this setup so I can take lots of notes and minimize some of the issues you have come across.

I have some questions about that but I will start a new thread on that.

This morning I was searching the HAMB for any information on others who may have the same issues as I with ECI. I found your posting linking this forum and this thread.

[Don Coatney]

It was an easy fix and I should have thought of it myself. I called ECI and they suggested I check the pedal free play mechanical adjustment. I did and it was too tight keeping pressure on the system. And naturally this pressure increased when things warmed up forcing the pedal to the top of its travel and locking all the wheel cylinders.

When I first installed the master cylinder I had ample free play but it must have changed perhaps after bleeding the system. I questioned ECI about the external rear residual valve and I was told that even with a 10 pound residual valve built into the master cylinder that the external valve will still function and both valves together will still hold only 10 pounds pressure.

It appears this project is now complete and I am finally back on the road.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Don Coatney

[Cpt.Fred]

congratulations on this operation, i hope everything stays fine now!

that problem you describe is interesting, where's your pedal now when you have the maximum pressure? i'm asking because i'm dealing with the same problem for quite some time now (only on a stock system...)

[Don Coatney]

congratulations on this operation, i hope everything stays fine now!

that problem you describe is interesting, where's your pedal now when you have the maximum pressure? i'm asking because i'm dealing with the same problem for quite some time now (only on a stock system...)

Full lock up is about 1/2 a pedals worth of travel. But remember I have discs on the front end and newer style drums on the rear. With your stock brakes properly adjusted you should have about the same pedal as I do.

[martybose]

I should be receiving a set of these shortly. Although I don't have Don's opposite side problem, I had a clearance issue anyway. It turns out that if you put an OD unit in a P15, the OD solenoid is only about an inch away from front brake connection on the Mustang master cylinder, so I went with the same banjo setup that Don found.

Thanks again for the research, Don!

Marty

I just ordered some "banjo" fittings from a company called Pure Choice Motorsports that are supposed to work with this master cylinder. Cost thirty bucks plus shipping for two fittings. I hope they work....

http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

3/16 Inverted Flare Master Cylinder Banjo Fittings

From Pure Choice Motorsports

Our award winning banjos are bright zink plated steel. This will allow a 90-degree flow out of the master cylinder for 3/16" standard steet tubing, where clearance is a problem or a cleaner look is desired for your brake lines.

Part # 3070 $29.95 pair

(GM Master Cylinder as pictured)

Other Sizes:

P/N 3013 Fits 7/16 & 7/16

P/N 3015 Fits 7/16 & 1/2

P/N 3025 Fits 3/8 & 1/2

P/N 3035 Fits 3/8 & 7/16

P/N 3045 Fits 7/16 & 9/16

P/N 3055 Fits 3/8 & 9/16

P/N 3065 Fits 1/2 & 9/16 ( Chrysler)

P/N 3070 Fits 1/2 & 9/16

P/N 3075 Fits 3/8 & 3/8

P/N 3085 Fits 10mm & 12mm

P/N 3092 Fits 11mm & 12mm

P/N 3095 Fits 10mm & 10mm

P/N 3105 Fits 1/2 & 1/2

[Don Coatney]

Thanks again for the research, Don!

Marty

Marty;

You are more than welcome. I am glad you will benefit from my trials and tribulations.

[49 Dodge Dude]

Just wanted to tell you what a beautiful paint job you have on your car! I just aquired a '49 Coronet, and one of the things on my to do list is a new paint job. What color is that and do you have the paint code information?

[martybose]

Well, I just finished re-engineering my ECI master cylinder kit. As Don had noted, there were 3 issues:

1. there was way too much freeplay when the pedals were installed per directions

2. there were no stops for either pedal

3. the bolt pattern didn't match the original master cylinder where it bolted to the frame

in the first picture you can kind of see where I had a section of steel plate added and an additional hole drilled (upper left in the photo) to correspond with the third bolt hole on the master cylinder.

In the second picture you can see the rather beefy stops that I added for both pedals, and you can sort of see the spacers I used. I took 4 of the spacers that Don had found at McMaster-Carr and made them work. I used one on the clutch side, another in between the brake pedal and the lever adapter for the master cylinder (which required custom filing on the OEM brake lever where it connects to lever adapter), and two on the right end of the brake pedal shaft. I wound up with virtually zero freeplay on the clutch side and less than 0.015" on the brake side, instead of the over 0.100" on both sides that I started with. I also moved the brake pedal marginally closer to the stock location.

Overall a successful venture, although one that shouldn't have been necessary. Hopefully this weekend I can get everything painted and installed so I can finish plumbing the brake system.

Marty

[Don Coatney]

Good job ,actually Great job Marty. Glad I was able to assist. I have now driven my car about 500 miles and I am happy with my new system. Glad you went where I have been and you made it work too.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Don Coatney

[pflaming]

I have a 53 Plymouth which will get Charilie's front disc kit. There are some really good master cylinder threads in this threads. The ECI concept does not excite me. For $300 modifications Don C had to do should be in the kit. Will look elsewhere for my replacement MC.

Other options requested.

Edited June 28, 2013 by pflaming