Possible Project

[HotRodTractor]

I'm a long time lurker - with only a couple of posts, mostly because I didn't have a good direction with what I wanted to do. I think I have a better concept now than ever and am almost ready to pull the trigger to begin, but have a few questions - let me give you guys some background:

Back when I was 15 (1997) I attended an auction and purchased three ROUGH Pilothouse trucks - but they all had just enough good parts that I couldn't resist the tempation to get some decent parts for a hot rod project - shortly after I had purchased a pilothouse with a super solid body and a functioning driveline - it functioned well enough that I fixed a few little things and cruised back and forth to high school in it on the nice days - it looked ugly with its old paint job and rainbow pinstripping, but I was proud of that thing. Right after I started college I found an additional parts truck that the price was right and had some of the earlier grill components that I like the looks and style of better than the later grill style. Along the line from then till now I picked up a 265 Chrysler Industrial motor out of an Oliver Combine (best $100 combine ever!), a 1998 Dakota chassis, and a T5 tranny out of a Camaro - fast forward to today.....

I finally have enough parts, and perhaps enough money to begin mixing and matching parts to do what I want. I would really love to have the modern suspension and braking of the Dakota with the looks and style of the Pilothouse truck, with perhaps some creative sheet metal work here and there. I would love to open the hood and have a hopped up 265 sitting in the frame rails just to be different. I have some pretty good fab skills and access to some serious tools. Now that I am at this point I have started taking some preliminary measurements and have a potentially serious issue that I need to research a little bit before moving forward.

That flathead doesn't like my crossmember in my Dakota. Big suprise right? I have had that concern for a while, but wasn't sure how bad it was going to be until over the weekend.

So my questions are: Has anyone converted thier pilothouse truck to an IFS setup and kept that flathead under the hood? How clearance does the motor need for the crank throw below the pan rails (the pan is still on my motor and still mounted in the framework that I pulled out fo the combine)? I have no issue doing some modifications to the Dakota frame, engine oil pain, transmission tunnel in the cab, etc to pull this off, but if it turns out I can only get 2" or so out of the crossmember (rack and pinion would need to be dropped some and I can only correct the steering so much) Maybe and 1" or so out of the oil pan, then I think the trans tunnel will need to be larger than I want and I will have to approach the project differently. Perhaps with a vintage hemi and a different transmission.

Is there a better way to improve the stance, ride, handling, stopping power on the original frame? I'm not a huge fan of solid front axle trucks unless they have a driveshaft attached to them.

Thanks!

Jason

[HotRodTractor]

I might be good to go if I can get some material out of the oil pan of the engine. I did some research on lowering kits for Dakotas and it seems as if they are getting three inches lower with just a-arm swaps and an additional inch using lowering springs. All of this is with the steering rack in the stock location, with the factory uprights. This tells me I can relocate the steering rack 3 to 4 inches lower if I have to and be OK with steering geometry - of course I need to confirm this.

Doesn't anyone have any opinions on this? Is there a better solution to get some modern ride, better brakes, lower stance, etc on this old girl?

[jakenoklahoma]

do a search for Volare front end conversion on this forum. Don't know how many who went that route kept the 218, but it is a weld on conversion using the stock frame

[Merle Coggins]

Where's the sump on the oil pan? Would switching from a front sump to a rear sump, or vice verse, help?

[Plymouthy Adams]

its a doable upgrade but still quite involved..be careful to set the volare in place with regard to correct caster..makes all the difference in the world on handling..

[jakenoklahoma]

http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/frontend/front.htm

[HotRodTractor]

Where's the sump on the oil pan? Would switching from a front sump to a rear sump, or vice verse, help?

I've got a rear sump pan on the 265 right now and thats the best situation that I can hope for. I need to go back to my stash of parts and take some more measurements, but it seams to me based off my rough estimation that I needed to shift things around 6" (from memory- my notes are at home at the moment) to get the motor into a somewhat "stock" location.

[HotRodTractor]

do a search for Volare front end conversion on this forum. Don't know how many who went that route kept the 218, but it is a weld on conversion using the stock frame

http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/frontend/front.htm

Thanks for the link. I've done a little reading on the Volare frontend but that made it much more clear for me why its a good choice - I now need to go find one and take some measurements and see if I will still have some clearnace issues.

[jakenoklahoma]

Thanks for the link. I've done a little reading on the Volare frontend but that made it much more clear for me why its a good choice - I now need to go find one and take some measurements and see if I will still have some clearnace issues.

I think, think; that the "small" Chrysler New Yorker might have been Volare based, or maybe it was Aspen based. That would broaden your search population. maybe, even the Magnum might work.

[msjenkins]

I think, think; that the "small" Chrysler New Yorker might have been Volare based, or maybe it was Aspen based. That would broaden your search population. maybe, even the Magnum might work.

Any early '80s Mopar midsize car should have the 'K' frame. I took mine from an '82 New Yorker.

[HotRodTractor]

OK - I'm home now and have ran around to measure and double check my notes just to see how bad this thing really is. Granted this is some off the cuff stuff so its not perfect, but it will serve its purpose.

To install the cab on the dakota frame so the truck has a 4" dropped stance the cab mounts need to be 2 1/2" above the "straight" portion of the frame (back of the cab/front of the bed area). If I install the cab at that height, drop the steering rack 3 1/2", massage the crossmember the steering rack bolts to (major surgery required), massage the 265 oil pan (minor surgery), the engine will be sitting about 3" higher than if you too the truck and just dropped it 4" using suspension. So in effect it would mimic a 1" drop and a 3" channel job all on a stock height Dakota chassis. I pressume some minor firewall surgery would be in order, but I am guessing that almost nothing will have to be done to the floor because of the size and shape of the T5 transmission compared to the factory transmission.

The only hicup to this is I need to get everything in its final resting place before I take on the custom intake I wanted to build for the motor as I think it might get a bit close to the hood the way I have envisioned it at the moment - but I can work through that.

Now that I have a rough idea of what this process will take - I'll look into the volare route and see how bad that is going to be to basically achieve the same thing. Once I have an idea of what it will take then I can compare the two concepts and decide which route is the best for me to take.

[smallblockjunkie]

My truck is a 48 b1b and I installed 86 corvette susp all the way around. After boxing the frame the front susp is only 1/8 inch narrower then the frame rails. My frame is the stock 1948 frame no cutting to install this susp.

[buds truck]

my 53 sits on a 92 Dakota frame. This was not a hard install at all, I even used the dakota floor and firewall.

[HotRodTractor]

My truck is a 48 b1b and I installed 86 corvette susp all the way around. After boxing the frame the front susp is only 1/8 inch narrower then the frame rails. My frame is the stock 1948 frame no cutting to install this susp.

It looks sharp!

my 53 sits on a 92 Dakota frame. This was not a hard install at all, I even used the dakota floor and firewall.

I've read some of the threads you have about your truck - and one of the reasons I picked up the Dakota chassis (that and it was cheep).

DOH! I had an epiphany while driving into work this morning. I now know exactly what my problem is. It is how I am approaching the problem. I want to lower the ride height and the quickest way to do that is to lower the body mounting on the frame - but when I do that and want to put the flatty in at near stock location relative to the body - BAM interference problem. If I mount the body on the Dakota frame so the truck sits at stock ride height there would be almost no issue. Then I could spend the money on drop parts for the Dakota and get my 4" drop...... not so sure I like that plan as I think I just defeated most of the purpose of buying the Dakota chassis to do the swap.

On the bright side I think i found a 1982 Diplomat with a 318 in it that runs for $400 - that would be my volare style front end, probably a rear end as well, plus a bunch of junk that I can sell and recoup some of my investment. I think I'm going to go look at this car and bring it home - if I don't use the parts for this project there will always be another project that can use them.