bkahler Posted February 8, 2022 Report Posted February 8, 2022 Recently I've been prepping the seat frame and seat tracks for installation in the cab. While looking at the seat frame it occurred to me that a possible location to fasten the lap belts would be the rear lower horizontal cross tube. The reason I bring this up is I was recently working on my motorhome and it came to me the seat belts on the dodge truck could be mounted similar to how RV seat belts are installed. With the RV seat pedestal the belt is attached to the the horizontal bar. If the seat assembly is separated from the vehicle the seatbelt stays with the seat. I guess in my mind I see the horizontal tube on the dodge seat frame being equivalent to how the seat belts are fastened on the RV seats. Quote
Lingle Posted February 8, 2022 Report Posted February 8, 2022 only concern I would have is the long lever that the horizontal bar on the factory seat is and how it may deflect if you were to be in a collision or abrupt stop. One may be able to put in a fore-aft tube to reinforce the seat and also make 2 additional mounting points down to the cab where the seat bolts but this increases the mounting points but would keep the seat belts affixed to the seat frame. I also assume this would only be for lap belts or at least just the connection of the shoulder belt. The RV ones seem very close coupled to the vertical tube. Just some of my thoughts. Quote
bkahler Posted February 8, 2022 Report Posted February 8, 2022 14 minutes ago, Lingle said: only concern I would have is the long lever that the horizontal bar on the factory seat is and how it may deflect if you were to be in a collision or abrupt stop. One may be able to put in a fore-aft tube to reinforce the seat and also make 2 additional mounting points down to the cab where the seat bolts but this increases the mounting points but would keep the seat belts affixed to the seat frame. I also assume this would only be for lap belts or at least just the connection of the shoulder belt. The RV ones seem very close coupled to the vertical tube. Just some of my thoughts. The addition of a fore-aft support makes sense and probably wouldn't be that difficult to add. I will need to make my mind up soon as to whether or not I want to go this approach because I'm scheduled to take the seat frame to the painter Friday! I'm not sure about the 2 additional mounting points to the cab. The seat frame has to be adjustable fore and aft. Yes, this would only be for lap belts. I think if an accident occurs that is violent enough to rip the seat frame from the cab will likely be violent enough that I won't need to worry about much after the fact. Having been in a high speed roll over (2-1/2 flips) and walked away from it I'm pretty sure if an accident like that happened with this old truck the results would be considerably different. There's a lot to be said for the safety features in modern vehicles. Quote
Lingle Posted February 9, 2022 Report Posted February 9, 2022 good point, I forgot about the need to move the seat fore-aft. I think in any regard some form of restraint would be beneficial and look forward to seeing what you have in store Quote
Brent B3B Posted February 9, 2022 Report Posted February 9, 2022 9 hours ago, bkahler said: ….There's a lot to be said for the safety features in modern vehicles. a few years ago, my nephew helped me put the cab back on my b3b, he asked “where do the air bags go?” Oh to be 20 again…. ?? 2 Quote
bkahler Posted February 9, 2022 Report Posted February 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Brent B3B said: a few years ago, my nephew helped me put the cab back on my b3b, he asked “where do the air bags go?” Oh to be 20 again…. ?? ? About the only air bags you could fit to a Pilothouse would be some bags for the cab to ride on.....? 1 Quote
bkahler Posted February 9, 2022 Report Posted February 9, 2022 While I'm pondering whether to mount to floor or seat frame I'm curious how many of you use retractable lap belts vs non-retractable lap belts. At the moment I'm thinking non-retractable. All of the retractable lap belts that I've seen require the use of plastic sleeves to keep the ends of the belt up high enough for the driver/passenger to reach them. That just doesn't seem like it would be to convenient to me. The reason I haven't made up my mind on whether to mount to the floor or the seat frame is due to the anchor point required. The anchor point might be to far behind where the seat tube is located. There are things I can do to overcome that but in the end is it worth the effort when all I really need to do is drill four holes in the floor board?! ? As you can plainly see, I have WAY to much time on my hands at the moment Quote
Eneto-55 Posted February 9, 2022 Report Posted February 9, 2022 5 hours ago, bkahler said: ? About the only air bags you could fit to a Pilothouse would be some bags for the cab to ride on.....? Some kinds of passengers might qualify. 3 Quote
JBNeal Posted February 10, 2022 Report Posted February 10, 2022 this is the seat frame with integrated seat belts on the QuadCab that I've stewed on for putting shoulder belts on the old Dodge bench seat. The shoulder harness is integrated to the seatback by the headrest, with the diagonal bracing across the seatback. The latch belt attaches to the basically the side of the riser. My general idea was to follow this design to upgrade the factory bench seat with outboard shoulder belts and a center lap belt, but this is as far as I've gotten on this project Quote
Eneto-55 Posted February 10, 2022 Report Posted February 10, 2022 11 hours ago, JBNeal said: this is the seat frame with integrated seat belts on the QuadCab that I've stewed on for putting shoulder belts on the old Dodge bench seat. The shoulder harness is integrated to the seatback by the headrest, with the diagonal bracing across the seatback. The latch belt attaches to the basically the side of the riser. My general idea was to follow this design to upgrade the factory bench seat with outboard shoulder belts and a center lap belt, but this is as far as I've gotten on this project I'm planning to take the same approach on my P15 4 door, but I'm thinking that I should use stouter slider mechanisms than on the original seat. That's kinda' weird to say that the newer stuff is stouter, but the original seat sliders were not designed to hold the seat PLUS the occupants in place during a crash - only the seat itself. I had saved all of that stuff from the seats out of a 93 Chrysler T&C for years, then finally scrapped it all - goes to show I should never throw anything away.... So now I have to go looking again. (Well, actually I DO still have the stuff from the driver's seat, but it's electric. 6 volts actually WILL run the mechanism, but I would be putting the entire bench seat on that, not just a single seat, so I don't know if that would be workable long term. I also think that the original P15 seat frame to floor mounts may not be strong enough, or that the bolts securing it to the floor may not be large enough.) Quote
bkahler Posted February 10, 2022 Report Posted February 10, 2022 12 hours ago, JBNeal said: this is the seat frame with integrated seat belts on the QuadCab that I've stewed on for putting shoulder belts on the old Dodge bench seat. The shoulder harness is integrated to the seatback by the headrest, with the diagonal bracing across the seatback. The latch belt attaches to the basically the side of the riser. My general idea was to follow this design to upgrade the factory bench seat with outboard shoulder belts and a center lap belt, but this is as far as I've gotten on this project In my own words I would describe the above arrangement as somewhat of a cocoon where the seat is a self contained device with seat and seatbelt built into sort of a pod. At one time I had seats from a Mazda Miata for another project where the seat rails contained the mounting points for the seat belts and the shoulder portion was part of the upper seat back. If I remember correctly the mounting bolts for the seat tracks to the floor were in the 3/8" (10mm) range. 15 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said: I'm planning to take the same approach on my P15 4 door, but I'm thinking that I should use stouter slider mechanisms than on the original seat. That's kinda' weird to say that the newer stuff is stouter, but the original seat sliders were not designed to hold the seat PLUS the occupants in place during a crash - only the seat itself. I had saved all of that stuff from the seats out of a 93 Chrysler T&C for years, then finally scrapped it all - goes to show I should never throw anything away.... So now I have to go looking again. (Well, actually I DO still have the stuff from the driver's seat, but it's electric. 6 volts actually WILL run the mechanism, but I would be putting the entire bench seat on that, not just a single seat, so I don't know if that would be workable long term. I also think that the original P15 seat frame to floor mounts may not be strong enough, or that the bolts securing it to the floor may not be large enough.) If you are concerned about mounting bolt sizes being to small couldn't you just increase the size to 7/16" which seems to be the standard for aftermarket seatbelts? I think (but not totally sure) that the mounting bolts for the seat tracks on the trucks are two 5/16 bolts on the front bracket and two on the rear bracket for a total of 8 bolts holding the seat tracks to the cab. The tracks themselves are held to the brackets with two 5/16 bolts each. I think after having this discussion I'm going to fasten the seat belts to the cab floor with reinforcing washers. This seems to be the accepted practice and keeps me from having to modify the seat frame in anyway. I guess sometimes simple is the best approach Thanks! Brad Quote
Eneto-55 Posted February 10, 2022 Report Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, bkahler said: In my own words I would describe the above arrangement as somewhat of a cocoon where the seat is a self contained device with seat and seatbelt built into sort of a pod. At one time I had seats from a Mazda Miata for another project where the seat rails contained the mounting points for the seat belts and the shoulder portion was part of the upper seat back. If I remember correctly the mounting bolts for the seat tracks to the floor were in the 3/8" (10mm) range. If you are concerned about mounting bolt sizes being to small couldn't you just increase the size to 7/16" which seems to be the standard for aftermarket seatbelts? I think (but not totally sure) that the mounting bolts for the seat tracks on the trucks are two 5/16 bolts on the front bracket and two on the rear bracket for a total of 8 bolts holding the seat tracks to the cab. The tracks themselves are held to the brackets with two 5/16 bolts each. I think after having this discussion I'm going to fasten the seat belts to the cab floor with reinforcing washers. This seems to be the accepted practice and keeps me from having to modify the seat frame in anyway. I guess sometimes simple is the best approach Thanks! Brad I think I would also do that if I had a PU, because the seat belt fastening points could be all the way to the back of the cab, and would not obstruct anyone's feet area. On a passenger car, the seat belts could easily get out into the rear passenger's floorboard area. I had a ride with a fellow church member who runs an "Amish taxi service" a year or two back, and his Ford van (15 passenger, I think) had seats in the rear with shoulder belts built into the seat backs like that. I know I've seen later model passenger cars that have that same arrangement, but I want to keep my stock seat cushions, and don't like bucket seats anyway. Quote
bkahler Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 I was looking through a bunch of pictures that I've saved off the internet over the years and came across this picture. Every other installation of seatbelts with shoulder harnesses that I've seen have the mounting point just behind the door on the B pillar in the sheet metal. This particular installation has it on the seam where the top of the cab meets the corner. Looking at my truck that seems to be a fairly strong section. Anyone know who this truck might below to or seen any others using this install location? Quote
Eneto-55 Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 How did they (the others, not this one) fasten it to the sheet metal w/o having a bolt showing on the outside? If you wanted a height adjuster, I would fasten a shallow C channel top & bottom to those two wrap-around cab braces, and fasten the slider to that. Wonder how they got a steel plate in behind that brace? Maybe welded a nut right into the brace? Quote
bkahler Posted April 8, 2022 Report Posted April 8, 2022 I believe a nut plate of some sort is used behind the belts that are fastened just behind the B pillar. Looking closer at my truck the area where the red truck has the shoulder harness fastened has room behind it for a nice sized nut plate. I'm at a point where I need to decide whether to buy belts with shoulder harness or just lap belts. I guess I better make a decision pretty soon . Quote
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