hawkhunter Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hi all, new to this group. Bought my first Pilothouse, a '51. It came in pieces, and I just fiinished putting in the engine and trans. I had to remove the top cover of the trans (4spd synchro) since the truck is also fluid drive and I couldn't get the trans to fit with the cover on. Anyway, now I've spent 4 hours trying to get the cover back with no. I've got it to sit flush several times, but it's not shifting. The forks seem to be in the right spot, but the shifting rods are giving me the headache. Any one familiar with this problem? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The shsift forks will turn 360 degrees on some of those transmissions. If just one is flipped half a turn, the cover will not go back on. Do you have a parts book you can look at to see how the exploded parts view shows the pieces to be? Sometimes that is helpful. Other than that, I would do my best to get measurements on the shifter collars and use them to get the shift forks positioned correctly. One thing is for sure - don't force anything. When all the parts are in place properly, it will slide together perfectly. Sorry I can't offer more concrete suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I had the cover off of my 4 speed spur gear trans a couple of times and I don't remember having any problems putting it back on. I just lined up the shift forks and dropped it on. It works pretty good. I tell you what... I'll send you my Spur Gear 4 speed for Fluid Drive, which works perfectly, and you send me your Syncro 4 speed for Fluid Drive, that isn't working now, and we'll call it even. I've got a syncro 4 speed that I was hoping I could convert to work with Fluid Drive. I checked with one of the top transmission shops in town. They've been in business for well over 50 years so I thought they'd have a chance of getting me the parts I need. Unfortunetly the 4 speed Fluid Drive parts are too rare, so the input shaft parts aren't available. I guess I'll keep practicing my double clutching. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkhunter Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The shsift forks will turn 360 degrees on some of those transmissions. If just one is flipped half a turn, the cover will not go back on. Do you have a parts book you can look at to see how the exploded parts view shows the pieces to be? Sometimes that is helpful. Other than that, I would do my best to get measurements on the shifter collars and use them to get the shift forks positioned correctly.One thing is for sure - don't force anything. When all the parts are in place properly, it will slide together perfectly. Sorry I can't offer more concrete suggestions. I do have the service manual, it shows a cutaway view of the tranny. Both forks appear to be positioned properly and I have no problem with those. I think the problem is lining up the the notched rod located in the upper cover with the shift arm located in the case. I've been attempting to keep the tranny and shifter in neurtral then replace the top cover, but no luck yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkhunter Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I had the cover off of my 4 speed spur gear trans a couple of times and I don't remember having any problems putting it back on. I just lined up the shift forks and dropped it on. It works pretty good. I tell you what... I'll send you my Spur Gear 4 speed for Fluid Drive, which works perfectly, and you send me your Syncro 4 speed for Fluid Drive, that isn't working now, and we'll call it even. I've got a syncro 4 speed that I was hoping I could convert to work with Fluid Drive. I checked with one of the top transmission shops in town. They've been in business for well over 50 years so I thought they'd have a chance of getting me the parts I need. Unfortunetly the 4 speed Fluid Drive parts are too rare, so the input shaft parts aren't available. I guess I'll keep practicing my double clutching. Merle Wow, how can I pass up a deal like that! lol. Actually I had a '56 with spur drive, yikes!. I've never had a fluid drive, and one of the reasonse I bought this combo was the FD coupler with a 4 spd synchro sounded like a great combo. Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if there's a special way to do this. I'll tell you, I had a heck of time getting this tranny in with its size and shaft length, it is very close to the cross member, no room to spare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I'll tell you, I had a heck of time getting this tranny in with its size and shaft length, it is very close to the cross member, no room to spare! Yes, I know. When I pulled my trans before pulling out the engine, I had to remove all of the parking brake assembly, to clear the cross member, Then I also had to jack up the front of the engine so that the rear of the trans would dip below the cross member. When I put it back together I had the trans and engine together as 1 unit. I dropped it in complete, but the cab was also off at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hey Merle, What's that big six volt battery - a group E? My own is a group II, and is not nearly as long. Just wonderin' . . . Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hey Merle,What's that big six volt battery - a group E? My own is a group II, and is not nearly as long. Just wonderin' . . . Thanks I don't know. It's what was available at my Farm & Fleet store. It was larger than the one that was in it, but it still fit the battery tray. I made up a new hold down bracket, because the original was rotten, but there was already a hole in the bottom tray to match up to the larger battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gaspard Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Merle, we're full of questions. As you recall I have the same Fluid Drive transmission set-up on my B3B other than I have column shift. However, my drive shaft is not near the beefy diameter as the one that appears in your photos below. What's the story. Is yours a one ton or 116 wheel base? Jim in Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Jim, I have a B2C, which as you know is a 3/4 ton, 116" wheel base. Maybe the drive shafts are beefer then on the 1/2 ton trucks. I know the u-joints are different. However, in that picture the drive shaft isn't even installed yet. What you're seeing is my muffler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buds truck Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Jim,I have a B2C, which as you know is a 3/4 ton, 116" wheel base. Maybe the drive shafts are beefer then on the 1/2 ton trucks. I know the u-joints are different. However, in that picture the drive shaft isn't even installed yet. What you're seeing is my muffler. now that was worth a chuckle.... honest mistake though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gaspard Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Duh! My bad! Got me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkhunter Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yes, I know. When I pulled my trans before pulling out the engine, I had to remove all of the parking brake assembly, to clear the cross member, Then I also had to jack up the front of the engine so that the rear of the trans would dip below the cross member. When I put it back together I had the trans and engine together as 1 unit. I dropped it in complete, but the cab was also off at that time. Well, my cab was on so it was a bit more difficult. I tried to drop in the engine with just the FD housing on and no go. Took the housing off and still couldn't angle it in until I took the pressure plate off! Mounted the engine, then from underneath, put back on the pressure plate and FD housing. Then discovered I had to jack up the front end, remove the rear engine mount to angle the engine down, remove the tranny top cover and the emergency brake to get the tranny in! Just like yours, mine is right up against the cross member. Now I'm stuck on the tranny cover, but it's only in the 30's here today and I'll need to give it (me) a rest for a day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Yup, that steering column and gear box is right in the way when pulling or installing an engine. I remember when I pulled my engine that I pulled off the trans, but left the bell housing attached. I have a good load rotor similar to the one pictured below. With that I could angle the front of the engine up and drop the rear down under the steer gear to get it out. Going back in whole wasn't easy either, even with the cab off. The steering unit was still in the way to get it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Well, my cab was on so it was a bit more difficult. I tried to drop in the engine with just the FD housing on and no go. Took the housing off and still couldn't angle it in until I took the pressure plate off! Mounted the engine, then from underneath, put back on the pressure plate and FD housing. Then discovered I had to jack up the front end, remove the rear engine mount to angle the engine down, remove the tranny top cover and the emergency brake to get the tranny in! Just like yours, mine is right up against the cross member. Now I'm stuck on the tranny cover, but it's only in the 30's here today and I'll need to give it (me) a rest for a day or so. Here is the factory Fluid Drive truck transmission bulletin on how to R&R these transmissions as advised by the factory. Hope you all can read it! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 That's interesting. I had to go back and look at my picture again. What-do-ya-know... that cross member is bolted in. I think I already had the fuel tank out too. Had I known that back then it would have been easier. Oh well, maybe next time. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkhunter Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Here is the factory Fluid Drive truck transmission bulletin on how to R&R these transmissions as advised by the factory. Hope you all can read it!Bob Hey Bob. Thanks for the bullletin, it reads just fine. I thought that crossmember would be a good idea to remove, but judging by the bolts, I'd have to grind them off. I thought it'd be a bit faster the way I did it, but probably not! Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkhunter Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yup, that steering column and gear box is right in the way when pulling or installing an engine. I remember when I pulled my engine that I pulled off the trans, but left the bell housing attached. I have a good load rotor similar to the one pictured below. With that I could angle the front of the engine up and drop the rear down under the steer gear to get it out. Going back in whole wasn't easy either, even with the cab off. The steering unit was still in the way to get it in place. My lift came with the basic Larin, load leveler, worked just OK, but the one you have seems like a real heavy duty unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Hey Bob. Thanks for the bullletin, it reads just fine. I thought that crossmember would be a good idea to remove, but judging by the bolts, I'd have to grind them off. I thought it'd be a bit faster the way I did it, but probably not! Thanks again. I remembered seeing the bulletin so I posted it for your situation! I also had a truck with the 4 speed fluid drive option- took the fluid coupling out because of the hassle to do clutch work and to install a PTO for a winch- The coupling wouldn't keep the PTO gears turning under a heavy load at idle. Last summer after 25 years I finally replaced the clutch for the 2nd time- it's easy W/O fluid drive! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkhunter Posted March 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thanks for all the input, I can put the cover with little effort now, but the tranny will not shiift. Maybe I'll start a new thread to deal with that little issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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