1949windsor Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 I have a 49 Windsor and am converting to 12 volts. Does anyone know of a direct replacement starter or solinoid for the 6 cylinder? thanks Brandon Quote
BeBop138 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 You can use your 6V starter with no problem..... Quote
1949windsor Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Posted March 4, 2009 You can use your 6V starter with no problem..... The solinoid is not engaging correctly (just spins half the time) and probably needs replacing. figured I would just update to 12v if avaliable Quote
greg g Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 just grab one for a late model ford anything from the 80's will work. It will have 2 large poles and two small poles. the second small one will provide 12v direct to the coil while the starter is spinning or you can use it to close your auto choke or tickle your alternator if you are using the 3 wire style. This will shut off after you release the key, so you will need to power thr coil through the ign and a balast resistor for regular running. Quote
steveplym Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 I just bought a Ford 4 pole solenoid for my car as I'm converting to 12 volts too. I've heard both sides of the "keep or not to keep" the 6v starter debate. I think I will try the 6v starter for a little while and see how much abuse my bendix and flywheel ring gear take. I do plan on checking to see how much it would cost to convert it to a 12V starter though. I've also checked to see if I can find a newer 12V that will work like Don C and others have done. For Greg G, so if I connect the pole on the solenoid that is 12V when the starter is cranking to the alternator, is that enough to tickle it and get it charging without getting up to 1200 rpm? Quote
1949windsor Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Posted March 4, 2009 just grab one for a late model ford anything from the 80's will work. It will have 2 large poles and two small poles. the second small one will provide 12v direct to the coil while the starter is spinning or you can use it to close your auto choke or tickle your alternator if you are using the 3 wire style. This will shut off after you release the key, so you will need to power thr coil through the ign and a balast resistor for regular running. HUH? A Ford solinoid will bolt right on to my Chrysler starter? I already removed the starter once and disassembled the solinoid to try and stop the spinning without engaging, no such luck! I understand the electrical part of your suggestion, but it can't be that easy can it? Quote
greg g Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Depends on the alt. the GM single wire needs the rpms to trigger the charge. The other types need a signal to start them making juice. Read on another board about using the hot when cranking post on the solenoid. It's idiot proof as the current can't feed back when you shut down, cause the post is only a complete circuit when the sole is engaged. Quote
greg g Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Most of the p15 and d 24 deals use a inner fender or firewall mounted solenoid. If your Chrysler has a different set up then this won't for your application. I know some later models had the soleoid mounted on the starter but the flathead dodges and plymouths did not. Quote
steveplym Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Depends on the alt. the GM single wire needs the rpms to trigger the charge. The other types need a signal to start them making juice. Read on another board about using the hot when cranking post on the solenoid. It's idiot proof as the current can't feed back when you shut down, cause the post is only a complete circuit when the sole is engaged. I've purchased the 3 wire. 1 and 2 terminal on top and then the large BAT terminal. #1 is for the idiot light, BAT hooks up to the battery, and I am assuming if I hooked #2 up to the solenoid it would work alright? As this is the tickle wire. Quote
1949windsor Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Posted March 4, 2009 Most of the p15 and d 24 deals use a inner fender or firewall mounted solenoid. If your Chrysler has a different set up then this won't for your application. I know some later models had the soleoid mounted on the starter but the flathead dodges and plymouths did not. It is right on top of the starter Are there any 12volt starters that will fit? Quote
greg g Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml Let me know how it turns out as I will be wiring my studebaker P/u shortly. Quote
grey beard Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Hey Gents, We have a little problem here with semantics. The Ford fender-mount item Greg speaks of is a starter relay, or a remote switch. Most MoPars used relays. I realize most people call them solenoids, but this is not accurate, and herein lies the problem with this discussion. Solenoids cause movement. GM starters have solenoids on top with shift forks that actuate the starter drives. Most of our MoPars use either manual engagement - trucks - or relays on cars, and the bendix drive spins into engagement without any solenoid help, just from the spiral splines on the armarture shafts. Relays just switch high amperage current to the starter. Solenoids actually move the bendix drive into mesh with the flywheel. I am not certain, but I believe there are some of each of these exsmples out there used by MoPar. Personally, I have never seen a MoPar starter with a solenoid on top. Doesn't mean there are none, for sure. Quote
Frank Elder Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 From the mid sixtys on up all had solenoids, not sure when the change over took place. Quote
Paul Hoffmeyer Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 All DeSoto and Chrysler starters from the 40's into the 60's had the starter-mounted solenoid. They would actually make a good replacement for the foot operated starters on the trucks. '56 starters would still work on the older vehicles and are 12 volt. '57 and up have a different tooth count on flywheel. Paul H Quote
bobby horne Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 I have been using a Dodge 1956 12 volt starter on my Dodge 1936 engine for a few years. Found the rebuilt 56 starter on ebay for around $60. Quote
1949windsor Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Posted March 6, 2009 All DeSoto and Chrysler starters from the 40's into the 60's had the starter-mounted solenoid. They would actually make a good replacement for the foot operated starters on the trucks. '56 starters would still work on the older vehicles and are 12 volt. '57 and up have a different tooth count on flywheel.Paul H Did it matter what engine or car the starter was on for a good fit? Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 7, 2009 Report Posted March 7, 2009 You can use your 6V starter with no problem..... Actually there is a problem using a 6 volt starter when running on 12 volts. The 6 volt starter motor spins at close to twice the normal speed when running on 12 volts. This rapid speed also causes the bendix gear engagment to contact the flywheel at an advanced speed and clashes with the flywheel ring gear teeth. Over time this will cause excessive wear on both the starter gear and flywheel ring gear. This in turn will someday cause the gears to improperly mesh and bind as they attempt to mesh. When this happens the starter motor will no longer spin and the only way to free the gears is to back them up a bit. This can be done by either using a pry bar to turn the flywheel backwards or placing the car in gear and rocking the car backwards until the starter motor bendix gear pops free. After this happened to me two times I got a 12 volt starter (once again thanks Greg G) and installed it. No more problems. Quote
cwcars88 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Posted March 7, 2009 Don I agree with you on all points, having said that I have put over 10,000 miles on my stock Model "A" since I changed it over to 12 volts still using the same 6 volt starter. No problems yet, but it may still, bit me in the butt. I have been thinking of doing the same to my stock P-15, but I will try bigger battery cables first. It turns over OK, but does not want to start when its cold or damp out side. A shot of starter fluid and I am off. Quote
Suddensix Posted March 7, 2009 Report Posted March 7, 2009 Actually there is a problem using a 6 volt starter when running on 12 volts. The 6 volt starter motor spins at close to twice the normal speed when running on 12 volts. This rapid speed also causes the bendix gear engagment to contact the flywheel at an advanced speed and clashes with the flywheel ring gear teeth. Over time this will cause excessive wear on both the starter gear and flywheel ring gear. This in turn will someday cause the gears to improperly mesh and bind as they attempt to mesh. When this happens the starter motor will no longer spin and the only way to free the gears is to back them up a bit. This can be done by either using a pry bar to turn the flywheel backwards or placing the car in gear and rocking the car backwards until the starter motor bendix gear pops free. After this happened to me two times I got a 12 volt starter (once again thanks Greg G) and installed it. No more problems. I agree Don even though I've been running a 6 volt starter on my 12 volt car for three years and so far so good. My problem has been in trying to find a 12 volt starter from a 56 Plymouth #MDG 6001. The only one I have found so far the guy wants way to much money for it. Have to keep looking. Quote
James_Douglas Posted March 8, 2009 Report Posted March 8, 2009 Don, When talking to my local starter repair shop, they told me that many of the Armatures are rated for 6V-12V. That they often just put in a new12V field coil and solenoid. Maybe...James Quote
steveplym Posted March 8, 2009 Report Posted March 8, 2009 James I called a starter repair shop yesterday and they told me the same thing. If something happens I guess it happens. As it will with my luck. I'm going to go with the 6V starter for a while until I have problems. Quote
cwcars88 Posted March 8, 2009 Report Posted March 8, 2009 I don't think the starter motor will give you any probllem, as Don said its the bendix gear and the teeth on the fly wheel that take a betting. Quote
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