hkestes41

No, No, No, possibly. You are missing the point I made completely. I have no problem with a guy putting a Chevy drivetrain in their Plymouth if that is what they want to do. Not what I would do with it but it is his car. Look at it this way, if your neighbor had a Rolex watch which no loger runs and he goes and buys a Timex at Wally World and put the Timex movement in the Rolex case behind the Rolex dial, then comes to you showing off his watch do you still consider it a Rolex? It is a nice car and no, I would not turn it down if I won it in a contest. But, I would pull the Chevy drivetrain and replace it with Mopar just my personal preference. I also agree with you that it is good to see it on the road rather than junked. Agree with you 100% Don't find it offensive at all. As I said in my original statement and try to point out with the scenario above, if that is what you want do it. My question is why do you build it with the heart of a Chevy and then say hey look at me driving a Plymouth? If I had a 67 Camaro or a 65 Mustang and decided to upgrade them with a Hemi I dang sure would not be putting a big Bowtie or Blue Oval on it. I would be advertising what I considered to be the upgrade and put Hemi badges on the fenders and a Mopar logo in the pinstripes.

One thing about the coupe that I have never understood is the guy who puts a bellybutton lint motor in his Plymouth and then does something like the ship on the side to advertise it as a Plymouth. You see this kind of thig with embroidery on the seats, large emblems on the trunk divider, pinstriping as with the ships and any other kind of external ID. If you are so proud of having a Plymouth that you want to make sure the world knows what it is, why are you putting a Chevy motor in it? Or is it that they are embarrased by the fact that they have another belly button and hope that if they put enough Plymouth ID on the car nobody will notice their choice of drivetrain?

Waiting on a new starter solenoid to come in. Leaving tomorrow for a "business" trip to Phoenix which just happens to coincide with the MLB All Star Game weekend, so it will likely be next weekend before I get to really drive it.

Just came in from the garage after getting it to fire and run for a couple of minutes. Have a couple of leaks to take care of in the morning but at least it has a heart beat. I took the two starters apart knowing that the 218 starter was good, and the 230 starter didn't sound too good and was turning rather slow. Once apart the bendix on the 230 starter was very "sluggish" when I would run it out then let go it took its sweet time retracting, while the 218 snapped back quickly. So, I took the bendix apart and put the gear portion of the bendix from the 230 on the spring/screw portion of the 218 bendix. Cleaned up the armature, wire brushed the inside of the bendix bore, used some emory cloth on the armature shaft, then lubed it all with oil and reassembled. Tried a couple of different spacer thicknesses working my way in until I was getting consistant engagement. Right now the starter is spaced out with a single lock washer on each bolt. I believe that I could remove those washers and still be in good shape and may in fact give that a shot tomorrow.

Spittle Fire Slobber Fire Drool Fire

I am by your office a couple times a year. Our US design center is located just down the road at 20400 Stevens Creek Blvd. Right at the corner of Stevens Creek and De Anza. Will be out there in a couple of weeks as a matter of fact. Only this time we are having our meetings at the hotel over near Saratoga and 280. By the way with all the starter issues I am having with the new 230, I'm not appreciating my collector car too very much right at the moment.

I have seen Knighhawk's work in person while still in progress before he had the interior done. He did a great job, everything was aligned well and the welds were great. I have never done a chop myself but would imagine that he picked one of the more complicated cars to do it with. Being a 4 door and with the slope on the rear of the top to the trunk to keep in proportion.

I understand what you are saying about the flywheels being different dimensionally and setting in a different location within the bellhousing, but with the mounting surface of the bellhousing being the same on both bellhouses changing the bellhousing would have no effect. The 57 model 230 bellhousing is longer than the 48 218 bellhousing but the additional length is on the transmission side of the bellhousing, not the front side where the starter is mounted. I am using the matched set of 230 crank, flywheel and starter. The only difference is the bellhousing which on the mating face is the same as the 230 bellhousing. If I switch to the 218 flywheel and starter to match the bellhousing, then I will have issues the other way as the 230 crank has a thicker flange and the 218 flywheel does not have the recess to fit the flange. This would move the flywheel too far back and the starter would not engage the ring gear. Then I would have to do as Don did and have the mating face of the bellhousing machined to move the starter closer to the ring gear. Don't think that I don't appreciate your suggestions, in fact after your posts on Forward Look I went and measured everything again. I just can't make the numbers come out right with changing the bellhousing or the flywheel/starter. I have now taken both the 230 and 218 starters apart, the 230 had a much more "sluggish" bendix. So I am going to clean everything up, lube it well, add new brushes, bushings and hope that is the issue. If not anybody have a good poly motor and transmission they want to trade for a 230 and O/D?

I do not believe that the bellhousing is the issue. The bellhousing has nothing to do with the physical spacing of the flywheel only the starter. Through measurements I have verified that the 218 and 230 bellhousing both place the mounting surface of the starter flush with the rear face of the block. The spacing of the starter from the side of the block is also the same on both bellhousings. This is figuring to be more an issue of the starter itself. If in the long run it proves to be the bellhousing you will be the first to know and I will say "you told me so."

Stan, Napa is where I pick up a complete set just about 6 weeks ago. They didn't have them in stock but had them the next day. Here is a link to the Dorman site for the 560-023 concave brass plug. Napa will be able to look them up by this number. http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-18014-560-023.aspx And here is a link to the complete list of Dorman concave expansion plugs. You can find your size needed on the list and give these numbers to Napa as well. http://www.dormanproducts.com/c-238-concave-expansion-plugs.aspx

Oh yeah, I come from a long line of Kentucky dufuses. Maybe one of these days I will share the complete story of my cousin (a real winner in life's lottery) who ran off with the 14 year old daughter of a preacher then held my grandparents hostage. While recovering in the State Hospital, he met another "patient" who was a prostitute in for rehab and married her. They had a daughter but the love just didn't last, so they were divorced within a year. Then the genious married his ex-wife's sister who also happened to be a prostitute and they had a kid, but alas this love fest didn't last much longer than the first. Needless to say, I have "lost" total contact with that side of my family. And I even have a cousaunt and a cousunc as my wife calls them. Cousins by birth, but aunt and uncle by law as my grandparents adopted them at about 8-10 yeasr old when there mother decided she didn't want them. I think I am the about the only "normal" one in the whole danged family tree. But I am getting a bit O/T.

Well a bit of an update. Good News / Bad News kind of thing. Took Greg's advice and spaced out the starter took about 3/8 inch. Actually used two of the very thick washers from the original manifolds. Pulled the plugs, added some oil to the cylinders then got it to cranke enough to build some oil pressure. Put the plugs back in and got it to fire and run for about 3 seconds. Starter sounded like hell and was not spinning the engine very fast. My wife pointed out a puddle under the car and i found that the line to the oil pressure gauge was leaking. Fixed that then tried to start it again and the bendix was not engaging, just grinding like there was a bad spot on the flywheel. Switched to some slightly thinner spacers and gave it another shot. Pushed the starter button, clunk, click then nothing. Lights etc still work but the thing is totally dead when you push the starter button. Was tired and hot (over 100 today), so I just closed up the garage and took a shower. Will get back to it tomorrow. Not an electrical genius in fact more of an electrical dufus. So, this should be fun trying to figure out.

While I definately do not want to do it, I am about to the point of pulling the transmission and changing to the 218 flywheel to see if that makes a difference. I am to the point of not knowing what else to do.

OK, I tried that and it made no change in the position of the bendix with either starter.

Bob, Dale is making good progress. Is everything going back to the way it was as far as paint and top color? Coming up on 6 weeks to the HAMBers start showing up for the Drags, is there any chance you will have the convert back by then?

Bolted the starter back in place and the teeth on the starter gear are meshing with the teeth on the flywheel as soon as it is bolted on. If I use a screwdriver to push the bendix back against the spring (toward the starter body) then I can turn the flywheel with another screwdriver. So it look like either the bendix is not retracting to the "home" position or the starter extends too far into the bellhousing. from the bellhousing mating face for the starter to the front face of the ring gear is 1 9/16. Does anyone have easy access to one that they can measure for comparrison?

Tim, I am running 12V now. Do you mean that the 57 230 starter had more than 9 teeth?

Did some further investigation. 218 flywheel 146 teeth right at 15 inches in diameter. 218 starter 9 teeth at 3/8 inches tip to tip on adjacent teeth 218 starter gear is 1 1/4 inch diameter roughly 230 flywheel 172 teeth again 15 inches in diameter as best as I can measure it in the car. 230 starter 9 teeth at 5/16 inches tip to tip on adjacent teeth 230 starter gear is right at 1 inch diameter. I would think that the smaller diameter of the starter gear and the teeth on the gear being closer together would make up for the additional 26 teeth on the flywheel. Which brings me to the photo posted by Don, it looks like maybe both my starters have the bendix locked in the full out position based on this photo of them side by side (218 on left). With both I can push back on them toward the body of the starter and they will move back but feel spring loaded and return to the extended position when I let go. How do I get them to return to the "home" position?

These are the same bolts I took off my 218 when making the switch and since the 230 flywheel sets further from the starter mating face I don't think the bolts are interfering but will check again. The starter goes right in with no interference when installing. Everything aligns and bolts right in.

If it were interference between the pressure plate or flywheel and the bellhousing woiuld it not cause the engine not to turn regardless of if the starter is bolted on or not? I am using the starter and flywheel that came on the 230 as I have read here that you must use the 230 starter due to the position of the flywheel when bolted to the flange. The 230 starter is a bit longer fromt he mounting surface to the snout end when placed side by side with the 218 starter. That is why I tried with the 218 starter as well. With either one as soon as I bolt the starter on the engine will not turn even by prying on the flywheel. Take the starter off and I can pry the flywheel and it turns rather easily.

Thought the same, tried to jump it with my wife's car. Left the cables on for about 15 minutes and still the same engine bumps then nothing.

The electrical is not what this problem is about. I can't even get the engine to turn manually by prying on the flywheel when the starter is bolted up. When the starter is off the engine it turns over easily.

I am using the starter and flywheel that were on the 230 when I bought it. It does the same with both the 218 and 230 starters. Will crawl under tomorrow and count the teeth on the flywheel. I am using the 218 bellhousing to have the rear motor mounts will have to measure again but they mount the starter in the same location so I don't think that is the issue.

Wow, thanks for your enlightening response.

OK, my new 230 is in went to spin it to get the oil pressure up before starting. It bumped over, then just clicked. Pulled the starter and it spins when power is put to it. Pulled the acess cover from the flywheel and could turn the engine by prying against the flywheel. So, put the starter back in and same thing. Bumped over then clicks. Tried to turn the engine prying on the flywheel and nothing. Pulled the starter engine turns no problem. For grins I put the starter from my 218 on same thing, engine will not turn with the starter bolted on. Any suggestions?