jcmiller

These guys may be able to help: http://www.hagensautoparts.com/1952/PLYMOUTH/P23+Cambridge%2C+Cranbrook+118.5wb/BRAKE+-+Cylinders%2C+hoses%2C+kits+%26+shoes/All/

I've got one corner pretty much put back together now. Should I put some oil on the felt oil washers? Also, I have a small tube of Sil-Glyde, a high temperature brake lubricant. I'd welcome advice on where it should be applied. I do know that not much is required. Thanks.

I had a rare weekend with time to work on the car so made some decent progress on the brakes. I got the wheel cylinders back from Hagens several weeks ago, but only just now had time to sort through the rebuild kits and other parts I ordered. A number of the pistons were shot. Hagens had four spares but I am still concerned about two (1 1/8 diameter) that they could not replace. I took care of the last of the painting and most of the parts cleaning and flushed and blew out the front lines. I still have a sore neck from trying to remove the rubber line in the rear and ended up just removing all the rear lines to make it easier. That also gives me the chance to clean up that breather/junction that sits on the rear axle housing. The only thing I actually put back on is one of the front backing plates but it sure looks nice and it felt good to start putting things back together.

When I disassembled my front brakes, there were no washers between the anchor bolt nuts and the backing plate on one side of the car. On that same side, there were washers (pictured) between the shoes and the backing plate. On the other side of the car, there were lock washers between the anchor bolt buts and the backing plate, but no washers between the shoes and the backing plate. From looking at the parts and shop manuals, it looks like there should be lock washers between the anchor bolt nuts and the backing plate and washers between the shoes and the backing plates. Is that correct? If so, is it important to use the the type of washer attached here as the spacer between the shoes and backing plate? I'm not sure what they are called, but the inside is slightly countersunk. Thanks.

I didn't make it - just passing it along.

Cool stop motion animation of engine disassembly and reassembly.

Here are some prices and info I collected when researching this: Apple: uses brass; $50 to resleeve WC and $80 for MC; prices are $85 and 175 for complete rebuilds. Hagen's: stainless; $60 to resleeve and rebuild WC and $125 to resleeve and rebuild MC. Just resleeving is about $20 less for WC. Not sure about MC. Kits are $12 and $26. Don't repaint but "look like new" when done. No apparent written guarantee. Sierra: brass; $60 for WC and $100 for MC. This is resleeving only and they don't do full rebuilds. 10-yr warranty. White Post: brass; $80 for WC and $175 for MC. This is full resleeve and rebuild. Lifetime warranty. They use an iron gray baked epoxy to paint. I was drawn to White Post because of full service and guarantee, but went with Hagen's because my wheel cylinders have two bore sizes. White Post wanted $120 for that instead of usual $80 and Hagen's price didn't change. I could not justify an additional $240. My parts are at Hagen's right now so can't vouch for final product yet.

There is a lot of info on the effect of paint and coatings on heat dissipation on the web. As with everything else, there is not complete agreement on the topic. The key appears to be the emissivity. From what I can tell, paint has minimal impact on heat dissipation and can prevent corrosion which may a larger impact on heat dissipation than paint. Here are a couple of links: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=40092 http://www.electro-optical.com/eoi_page.asp?h=Emissivity%20of%20Materials#Conductive Paints

It seems like that would be true, but the fact that the wheel cylinders have two bore sizes makes me wonder. The existing ones are all full-length, and I think that is what most folks have now. I wasn't going to worry about it if the old ones were usable.

The brake shop says the linings should be replaced. When I told them that the rear shoes had shorter linings originally, they said that was a cost saving measure by Plymouth and that it is fine to put full linings on. It is a little harder for them to do shorter linings. Should I insist on having the original spec linings put on? brakeSpecs.pdf

I'll let you know how I feel about Hagen's after I get the cylinders back. I checked a bunch of places and they were the least expensive and always had a person to talk to on the phone. The cost for the wheel cylinders is half what White Post wanted, although White Post has a lifetime guarantee and paints them. As far as the parts go, my local NAPA insists that it cannot find any information for cars before 1963. I know that's BS but I'd rather get the right parts from Hagen's than spend my precious spare time trying to find a parts store that knows how to find parts for old cars, even though Hagen's might be a little more expensive.

I decided to replace the seals. I was able to order them from Hagen's in Puyallup, WA, along with new hoses and kits for the master cylinders. They are also going to resleeve all the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder. It'll be the first big check I have to write for this car. I got the rear drums and backing plates back from the sand blaster and painted them with VHT caliper paint and then baked them. They look pretty nice compared to how they started. A local shop will now turn them and arc the brake shoes to match. I'm getting ready to do the same for the front drums and plates but there are more complications with that. The bearings and races look fine so I don't want to remove the races to accomodate sand blasting. From reading some other threads on this forum, it sounds like the races can easily break and there is a good chance of not being able to remove and then reinstall. On the other hand, I don't want to leave them on and have them damaged during sandblasting. I can tape over the ends of the hub but it seems likely that grit will find its way inside. Regarding the backing plates, the front ones have dust seals riveted to them that might get damaged in blasting, painting, baking. Any thoughts on whether the hard lines should be replaced as a matter of course? They look pretty crusty on the outside and who knows what the inside looks like. I kind of hate to add it to the list, but with only a single reservoir MC, I feel like I probably should.

I thought people might find this interesting. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154369/Crash-bang-wallop-Fascinating-photos-capture-thrills--spills-golden-age-American-motoring.html

Maybe it is a factory replacement engine? The Plymouth judging standards read: "Factory replacement engines can be identified by the lack of a serial number stamped on the engine number pad of the block. They can also be identified by a tag reading 'For Parts Specify Model 220'. Although Chrysler did build other replacement engines, only replacement coded 220 is correct for any Plymouth passenger car from 1935 through 1949, including all Plymouth PT commercial models." My tag was tucked behind another tag on the firewall, but they were supposed to be attached to the block a bit below the engine number pad. Yours has a different number but maybe it was a type of replacement engine, like the Model 220.

Thanks guys. That's a handy website Tod, although the picture on the NAPA website of that part # does not look right. I suspect they have a generic picture for all their seals though. (Or maybe the ones on my car are the ones that don't look right.) Looks like I might have to visit a NAPA store again even though last weekend they couldn't find any information on brakes for Plymouths older than 1963.

Yes, I have a 42 too, Club Coupe. I'm redoing the brakes right now. I just got the rear drums and backing plates back from the blaster today and painted them tonight. I have not bought any replacement parts yet. All my wheel cylinders need to be resleeved. I think I'm going to send them to Hagen's, in Puyallup, WA. It is $60 each and that includes rekitting. The price from White Post is $120 because there are two bore sizes in each cylinder. WP has a better guarantee and paints them, but it's too much extra for me. Hagen's also has the rubber brake lines and some other brake parts.

Congratulations on the car. I have the same kind and it was also sitting for a while. Yours looks very complete. Mine is missing that piece of sheet metal under the front bumper.

I have my rear brakes disassembled and the axles out. Should I replace the inner seals as a matter of course? The car has been sitting for at least 7 years but I otherwise have no other reason to suspect there is something wrong with them. Is there a way to tell by looking at them if they are still good? I know it's not a difficult job but it means renting a puller, finding new seals, and finding something to drive them in with. I'd like to avoid that if I can determine if they are still good. On the other hand, now is the time to do it. I sure don't want to have to tear everything down again because of a leaky inner seal. The seals partly cover the lubrication hole in the axle housing, as shown in the photo. Is that normal, or perhaps an indication that the wrong seals have been installed or they are not fully seated? Finally, the end of the axle shaft has some discoloration and corrosion, as shown. Should I be concerned about that? Thanks.

Here's a '42. I think the fenders are original.

These pics are from the Library of Congress website. Here are the captions: Conversion. Automobile industry. The last automobile engines in a large Midwest factory to be completed prior to its conversion to tank production. These engines will be used to fill government orders for spare parts. The Plymouth Company, Chrysler Corporation, Detroit, Michigan. Feb. 1942 Conversion. Automobile industry. Line of "honing" machines formerly used on automobile motors, have been moved back in the plant to make way for war work. Soon these machines will be stored outdoors until the tools necessary to adapt them to war activities can be completed. The Plymouth Company, Chrysler Corporation, Detroit, Michigan. Feb. 1942 Conversion. Automobile industry. The last automobile engines to come off the line will be used to fill government orders, to replace engines now in existence, and for certain marine engine work. The Plymouth Company, Chrylser Corporation, Detroit, Michigan. Feb. 1942 Conversion. Automobile industry. Goodbye to all this--for the duration anyway. The last lone car leaves the factory before conversion of this plant to war production. The Plymouth Company, Chrysler Corporation, Detroit, Michigan. Feb. 1942 Conversion. Automobile industry. "Take it away, lady"--the last private passenger car to be made in a Midwest auto plant is driven away by its owner. Tanks instead of luxuries are America's new order. The Plymouth Company, Chrylser Corporation, Detroit, Michigan. Feb. 1942

Looks like another Rogue bumper.

1942 Club Coupe

Well the excitement of getting this thing running last month for the first time in a decade is tempered by getting my first really good look at the floor! I knew there was some rust but it's a bit worse than I expected. I keep telling myself it's 10X better than the car it replaced. It also looks like there has been some earlier surgery. On both sides there are sheet metal patches riveted to the floor. Some rivets were also used to hold down the removable floor pan after bolt heads were evidently twisted off. I twisted another one off myself and am still wrestling with the final one.

Thanks Tod!

I need to remove the front mat/padding which seems to be original. It is very fragile and there is no slit to allow it to slide past the gas pedal like there is for the clutch and brake. How do you remove the gas pedal? I've searched this forum and it sounds like there is a bracket with studs for the lower attachment point, but I don't think I can get to it without mucking up the mat and pad. Is there a trick to this?