Loren

In my research Greg G is correct the max backspace is 3 1/2 inches (this is what the stock '49 wheels are and you can't go more because things start bumping) which means any increase over stock width goes to the outside. There seems to be plenty of room for wider rims in the fender openings as long as you don't go too large on the tires. One thing usually over looked is the hub diameter, most after market wheels are around 1/2 inch larger in the I.D. than the Mopar hub O.D.. I don't know if you care about that but I do. 6 to 7 inch wide sounds about right but if you are using over 205/75/15 tires, (the modern radial equivalent to the stock size) a test fit would be a good idea. Another thing to remember is the wider the tire the greater the steering effort will be when parking. Radials typically like more caster than the Plymouth can be adjusted for but considering the advantages Radials have I don't think 99 out of 100 owners would care. Great looking car Andy!

I thought I knew everything to get this job done but it seems there are some nuances to this project which I have overlooked. You can drop the drums into the wheels and everything looks fine until you tighten the lugs. So...yes you will be changing the wheels....Chrysler Windsor 12 inch brakes have the right King Pins but the wrong upper bushing (or needle bearing). The steering arms bolt right up but they are now lower than the Chrysler ones. I am still trying to work out wether this could be a problem or they will need to be changed. Big Chrysler Knuckles have bigger King Pins and therefore are not being used for this mod (they might possibly work if you changed the Supports. Which is not a job I'd tackle unless I was rebuilding the entire front end). The wheels however can be used as they have the same bolt pattern. Bottomline: Once I work out the kinks and get all four wheels on the ground and fully tested, I will put together a new bill of materials and a procedure on how to get satisfactory results. I have to admit this is a work in progress.

I have looked the wheels over with close attention to what exactly is going on. It will require a spacer 1/2 inch thick. They make them but I think I am going to go wheel shopping. Wheels do flex on hard cornering so what clears while standing might not clear while they are being used. I am pretty sure a 16 inch wheel will clear. It's the drop center that bumps where the center meets the rim (at the riveted portion). Yes the unsprung weight does increase. There is simply more iron involved. I don't believe it would be noticeable and considering the benefits it's a good trade off. Comparing the weight increase versus Vented Disc Brakes, I would have to think the drums would be less. Now I am on another treasure hunt...

A final resolution Ebay sent me an email this morning stating that THEY were refunding the rest of my money including the shipping costs. Not a word from the seller. Sorry would have been nice. When my daughter graduated from law school the guest speaker said one line that stuck with me. ”A reputation that takes years to build can be destroyed in an instant with a bad choice.” Of course I knew the sentiment I just hadn’t heard it put into words. Nobody ever remembers graduation speeches but I remember that line of that speech.

An update There is a cheap quick and dirty solution to the wheel fitting problem. A wheel spacer (oddly to fit disc brakes on some cars) can be had to give enough clearance. With some testing I am going to determine the exact thickness needed. I will pick some up this week at Summit Racing when I go back to Nevada.

An Update to the clock. EBay informs me that the seller received my return and has refunded HALF of my money less a DEDUCTION of $38. They asked if I wanted to open a case. Damn right I do! To recap the clock I bought was listed as “New out of box” with some pieces missing ( the lamp socket and the cable ). The clock I got was used and not even the same style as the one in the listing. I told eBay because of this I expected and demanded 100% refund as this is a case of fraud pure and simple. I am very close to revealing the name of the seller to this forum. They knew what they were doing because they have never responded to my original message about the switch in items. Further they now have no clocks for sale....if they ever had the one I ordered, which I am beginning to doubt. I would not buy from this supplier again even if they were the only source for a particular part ( which I believe they are in a couple of cases ). Good customer service is not rocket science and pays big dividends in customer loyalty, swindling people does not.

Okay news I did not want to hear! This morning I put a wheel on the drum I finished mounting yesterday. When you tighten the lug bolts on the Safety Rim Wheels the assembly won't turn! An investigation found the problem, the centers of the Safety Rim Wheels at the dips closest to the outside diameter of the drum just touch the drum enough to distort the drum locking the brake. Since the steel center of the drum is flexible there is no harm done and it springs right back. PHEW! I had planned on changing the Safety Rim Wheels to a wider rim anyway but this has to be acknowledged for those interested in doing this modification. Of course a little work with a grinder could knock the corner off the dips to provide clearance. Which is what I will have to do to get my car off the jack stands while I prepare a set of wheels. The Torrington NB-15-OH (Chrysler P/N 681378) needle bearings as I said before are no longer made. The ones I got were sealed in the original rust preventative paper and grease, but they were stuck. An hour with PB Blaster and a box cutter got them to wiggle a little but not move. Two hours in an ultra sonic cleaner in Diesel Fuel broke them loose. If they had been installed stuck they would have stayed stuck forever. Now I am hopeful. On another topic, I am interested in your Police car. My Grandmother had a 1951 Ford Police car that was built for the Pasadena PD but remained unsold. This thing had enough torque it went through gearboxes pretty quickly which is why she got a new Ford in 1955. However it would out run the new CHP Oldsmobile 88 overhead valve V8s for top speed by a wide margin. People give their cars names and her's was always "The Police Car." Fun to know what Plymouth did for the Police Package! Police cars after their service (around 100,000 miles) usually become Taxi cabs so there's a lot of heavy duty stuff in them.

I am sorry for the confusion, my training did not come from the Mopar parts book. For clarity what my Plymouth manual calls a “Knuckle” would be called a “Steering Knuckle” or a spindle elsewhere. Which seems more descriptive to me. The part I called an “Up-right” is indeed called a “Support” in the Plymouth manual. Again being the only vertical suspension member, “Up-right” seems more descriptive than “Support”. If you said “Support” to me without knowing you were referring to a Plymouth front suspension part I would think you were talking about some kind of bracket. Since they made the car they can call them whatever they wish. I will be more careful to use the Plymouth nomenclature in the future rather than generic terms.

Well I can tell you with 100% certainty that you will need the spindles. The anchor points for the brake shoes are a part of the spindles. When they increased the size of the shoes it required a change to the spindles. Therefore there are three different spindles. All will fit the uprights on the cars however.

For some time I've considered how to get really big brakes on my Plymouth. It wasn't so much that I felt a need as I realized that you could. My Plymouth P17 has 10 inch brakes, a similar year DeSoto has 11 inch and Chrysler Windsors have 12 inch. Let me tell you a 12 inch Chrysler drum fills a 15 inch wheel! I've read about other people's adventures putting disc brakes on Plymouths and it just seemed to me to be more work and engineering than it was worth. Chrysler across its line of cars had a continuity of design. As cars got bigger and heavier they placed bigger brakes on them of exactly the same design. Thus a Plymouth uses the very same hydraulics as a Chrysler. Which for the company meant lower costs of stocking parts. For service it meant there were no surprises or re-training for technicians. For manufacturing it meant associated parts could be the same thus again lowering costs. Because high volume cars like Plymouth and Dodge paid the engineering costs, the company could afford to make better DeSotos and Chryslers. That is the real beauty of Mopar cars. Since Chrysler Brakes CAN be put on a Plymouth, you knew somebody WOULD. And I am certainly not the only one who has done this. I studied the shop manuals and parts supplier's sites and found that the king pins in the front were the same but the Chrysler spindles had Torrington Needle Bearings in the top (thus a different P/N for the King Pin Set). Torrington discontinued the bearing Chrysler used decades ago. I found an NOS King Pin Set for my project at a reasonable price with the needle bearings. In retrospect I think one of the reasons the bearings were discontinued is that they tend to get stuck and they skid more than roll. One supplier sells a kit with a thick bushing in place of the needle bearing (at a good price too) and this may be a better choice. Speaking of bearings, even the wheel bearings and seals are the same. If you are on a treasure hunt you will need the spindles, backing plates, drums and the tubes from wheel cylinder to wheel cylinder. Being kind of picky I bought a left handed 1/2 x 20 tap & die to clean up the threads on the left side for the lug bolts (most tap & die sets have right handed 1/2 x 20 in them). I sand blasted everything and put some paint on them just to keep the rust at bay. Tomorrow I begin to install the front brakes. 6BB2C2CC-563E-4F8F-8FA6-F7DB6613C9A9_1_201_a.heic

I had a two door in the 1970s. It was trouble free. My Dad told me it would last forever as long as you never drove over 55 mph. It lasted as long as I had it. $4,000 doesn't seem too out of line. Mine was only $150 in 1970....I got my money back a couple of years later.

Some previous owner (Lee Petty? Or a wannabe) must have put one on. The body lean on mine is awful. I doubt someone took it off. My Special Deluxe and my Suburban were fine but this one gets scary sometimes. Happily it's an easy fix. Once I get one I might make a heavier one, just because. Another venting: The previous owner replaced the exhaust system. However it has a leak at the manifold. Who ever made the pipe put a cheap fits-all flange on it. The holes are slotted and too big for the bolts so it won't center over the outlet. The flange is also too thin of a gage to get it tight without warping like mad. So I am going to try thick washers with sleeves to center the bolts. I also have on order a Walker part which is a two piece repair flange that bolts together to seal a problem some GM cars have with leaks. One of these fixes has to work otherwise I will be making my own flange. To get at the exhaust manifold you can remove a plate from the wheel well, which is a great design feature (if you know about it). While I am fighting the exhaust leak I decided to install my Vacuum Booster Fuel Pump for the windshield wipers. So it's all good.

Here's my quick and dirty way to tell if something fits. Go to AB's online catalog....look at what gasket fits across the car lines. Sometimes a gear ratio say was offered on one car but not on your's. That doesn't mean it doesn't fit, it only means they didn't offer it as a standard item. In the case of brakes for example across Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler and DeSoto (of the years I like) all the hydraulic parts are the same the only difference is the size of the drums, shoes and backing plates. AB tells you that differential carrier gaskets are the same up to 1956. So you could install a differential carrier from say a 1956 Dodge V8 in your 49 Plymouth 6 with a 3.54 ratio. That is a whole lot easier than changing the rear end! Hollender is nice and I have one, but it has its limitations.

My 49 Business Coupe is a joy, but it is also the cheapest Mopar you could buy (outside of the pickups....pickups used to be the lowest priced vehicles but not anymore). I once had a Special Deluxe Two Door and it was a really nice car. You got a lot for your money with one of those. The Coupe has me looking for Optional Seat Springs that you could have the dealer install. Didn't seem to need them with the Special Deluxe. A Front Sway Bar. A radio to complete the Wood Grained Dash which I find so stunning. A clock to compliment the Radio. That clock has become an issue. On eBay I found three clocks from the same well known (not to be named) supplier. A used Dodge clock, a new-in-box Plymouth clock and a new-out-of-box Plymouth clock with some pieces missing. I put a "Buy it now" purchase on the last one thinking I could find the light socket and save nearly $100. Yes clocks go for that much. It was ten days before it shipped. When it finally arrived, it was the used Dodge clock not the new Plymouth clock! I dashed off an irate message to the supplier, which went unanswered. I went to my post office for a new box, "Sorry we don't have those regional boxes, they have a special rate." To which I asked "If I recycle this box will you give me the same rate?" Yes was the answer. I cleaned up the box and repacked the clock. eBay has a "Return this item" button so after 24 hours of no response I clicked it. There is a page that you print and take to the post office and they will print the return label. Easy right? Once the label was printed the postmistress informed me "You can't use that box. This label is for first class not Priority"!!! Back home for a plain brown wrapper box. Well I finally got it off in the mail. 3 trips to the Post Office and considerable frustration. Plus when you return something you lose the ability to give bad feedback. Now I went on a hunt for another clock. I found two. One without a photo...no dice I learned my lesson. One with a photo, further away and slightly more money. "Buy-it-now" button pushed on Thursday. Friday I got a cheery message thanking me for my purchase and saying they will get it in the mail Monday.... It occurred to me that these folks are playing a great joke on me....they think I have plenty of time on my hands.....and I would if I had a damn clock!

For starters where is it and how much would you like to get for it? Perhaps a photo or two would be nice.

In the 1970s I had a 49 Special Deluxe Two door as a second car. Loved that car! Anyway my Dad who drove it a lot put one of those wolf whistles on it and found it made dogs crazy! He would terrorize folks at stop lights who had dogs in the car. They would jump from the front seat to the back and cause all sorts of hate and discontent. My Dad had a unique sense of humor. I limited myself to the growl the transmission made when you worked the clutch. Apparently there was a bearing that was bad. It was loud enough it got the attention of other drivers (and Dogs) even with the windows up. The ears would go up but no hysterics.

I am struggling to put this in a way not to sound snarky. A set of wheel chocks (and the resolve to use them) is a wise addition to the tire changing equipment of every car you own, especially those with automatic transmissions. All my late model vehicles came from the factory with them. Old bad habits are hard to break but even 4 wheel drive vehicles come with wheel chocks now (and they need them! Don’t ask me how I know). I once thought wheel chocks were a warning that the vehicle had a crappy jack. (You should see what BMW puts in the Mini tool kit!) Your experience (along with too many of my own) has re-doubled my commitment to use wheel chocks when ever the jack comes out. In cleaning up my storage this week I found a never used set of folding chocks that are going in the truck of my coupe! So here’s my logic, if one gets in the good habit of using wheel chocks (and making sure they are always available) then one has no need to go to the trouble of modifying one’s collector car. Having left a Plymouth drive shaft E brake on and those of other designs, I have more faith in the Plymouth of actually stopping the car in an emergency. So for me I am still not moved to change (pun intended).

Hmm Has a second gear the same as the stock first gear. Has a fifth gear with 28% overdrive. Have to use clutch on every gear change. Had to change whole rear end to get to 3.7 to 1 final drive ratio. Then bored a hole in the floor board to use the shifter, loosing a passenger seat. Hmm My Overdrive uses the stock shifter with zero modifications. Didn’t even have to adjust it or the clutch. My three passenger coupe is still a three passenger coupe. My stock Plymouth rear axle has a differential carrier and I have my choice of gear ratios 3.9 3.73 or 3.54, all on the shelf ready to slide in. Don’t have to remove the whole rear axle to change ratios. With an Overdrive you don’t have to clutch every gear change and the overdrive is automatic. All you have to do is lift your throttle foot momentarily. The Plymouth Overdrive is 30%. When it came time to hook up on the speedometer cable, it fit. When it came time check on the accuracy of the speedometer, I simply put the gears from the original gearbox in the Overdrive, they fit. (For now I left the stock 3.73 final drive ratio in the car) The Plymouth transmission also has an optional 2nd gear ratio should you desire it. (I have three of them, just in case) On the non-synchro first gear, Borg Warner made Overdrives for 11 makes of cars and trucks clear up to 1973 (Ford pickup) and not one of them had a synchromesh first gear. Why? Because with automatic overdrive a freewheel sprag clutch is required and that helps prevent grinding in first gear. For my money (time & effort) the stock Plymouth Overdrive and stock Mopar rear axle seems like the best solution.....for me. I know some folks have different ideas but for me this is far and away the best solution. If I can’t convince you, I have an S10 T5 you can buy from my Model A Ford. I am going to change it out for a 1939 V8 transmission, they just work better....for me. I hope no one is offended by my choices for my car. I just think they work better.... for me. I’ve come to appreciate Chrysler Engineering and so it tickles me to keep my car as all Mopar as I possibly can.

When there was a “Filling Station” on every corner they had to be competitive and offer to wipe your windshield and check your oil. If they weren’t busy and you had the time they’d check your tires too. The compressor makers advertised that to gas station operators hoping to show them how to become “Service Stations”. Going back a little further, you bought your gasoline in 5 gallon cans from the hardware store! The store clerks were instructed to ask if you needed dry cell batteries for your ignition. I have a 1908 Ford Model S that was the deluxe model and it came with a six volt lead acid storage battery and a bank of dry cells to supply ignition power. Lead acid batteries were expensive so you only got one even in the deluxe model. I heard a story about warring gas stations. They kept lowering prices to put the other guy out of business. A friend of mine told the story about how he went in to the station with the lowest price and the owner asked him how many gallons he needed. When he told him the guy handed him some coins and told him to go buy his gas from the guy across the street! Apparently they both were selling below cost and he had sold out but didn’t want the other guy to take advantage.

4.3 to 1 is for drag racing. on the highway your engine would be screaming. A 3.73 is a good all around ratio. If you do mostly highway in flat country 3.54 would be better. Any change will require the speedo gear from the donor car transmission. If you need a 3.73 differential carrier complete (no rebuild needed) they are around. The one in my coupe has 38,000 miles. If you want one to have rebuilt I have one disassembled and cleaned too. If you want a 3.54 I can tell you where to find one (they’ll have 3.73s as well).

I have admit there’s somethings I do not know and won’t knowingly send you down the wrong path. I will tell you my experience. My Suburban and my Coupe came with 3.73 gear sets. My research found that the 8.25 axle had many ratios but the lowest numerical one is 3.54. Now that is not a big change but it is noticeable if you’re towing a trailer or other heavy loads. My Coupe is the lightest Mopar of 1949 and I don’t intend on towing a trailer so I am going to put that ratio in it for a trial. I have already installed an R10 Overdrive so this car will really have some highway gears! So where do you find 3.54 gears? The default answer is eBay because it is so easy to shop. The differential carrier I got was from a 1956 Dodge and I paid $250 delivered for it. Somebody challenged me on that so back to eBay I went and found 4 potential candidates at one wrecking yard. You only had to ask one question to know what you were buying, does the donor car have an automatic transmission? If yes push “Buy it now” Happily in looking at the ads I saw a 6 volt positive ground Delta Mark 10 ignition box. I wrote to the seller and they said they would sell it to me. Since I know a guy who can test and repair them I bought it. My repair guy said he had only seen one of them in 10 years! I think he was looking in the wrong place. Lol Anyway, I do not have any experience in trucks or pre-1949 Mopars (with the exception of the 1940 and later transmission. I know you can get an optional ratio for second gear the old time hot rodders liked). Again if it uses the same carrier gasket then it will fit. If the axle splines don’t fit, then change the side gears to the ones from your old differential. Hope that helps. Please report back and you will be expanding the knowledge base.

I feel your pain Ken! I can’t even imagine climbing under a car now days to set up a ring and pinion in one of integral housing axles! Yet folks on this site crow about their new Ranger or whatever rear axle. Just seems to me to be going backwards and bragging about their “improvement”. If a person does not have the skill/experience (or the time) to set up a ring and pinion, it’s not a blemish on one’s character to take a differential carrier to a shop that does. At least with a Mopar axle you don’t have to take apart half the damn car. You might get the idea that really I like the original design and I do. The only other axle I would consider is the 8.75 and the only reason I’d change it would be if I somehow made enough horse power to break the 8.25 (and that only happens in my dreams!).

The differential is the rotating part that contains the differential gears and mount the ring gear. The differential gears allow the outside wheel to rotate farther when cornering. The reason the differential can be different is the offset required for different ratios. When you make the pinion larger the ring gear has to move away from the pinion’s center. This is accomplished by making the ring gear thinner until it would lose strength if made any thinner. The fix is to move the flange on the differential. That’s why I said the differential could be different. We use a short hand when describing the parts. Differential has been used for the entire axle when it actually is only the part containing the differential gears and mounting the ring gear. Folks call the “differential carrier”, the pumpkin or 3rd member which are names which don’t appear in any shop manual. Automotive terms do vary from place to place and for the most part depend on who invented what. Sometimes things were invented at the same time in different countries, then confusion reigns. Some examples of who invented what, tapered roller bearings are measured in inches (because an American company invented them. Timkin) while ball bearings are measured in millimeters (a European company was the major manufacturer of them SKF) the threads on spark plugs are measured in millimeters for the same reasons even though they might have an inch wrench sized hex. Ford used pipe threads until superior spark plugs made their way from Europe. Just to clarify my M.O. when determining if a particular part may fit another, I look for the associated gasket. If a differential carrier gasket fits across the Mopar range then it’s likely you can swap the carriers between axle housings. Stuff that doesn’t have a gasket means you have to start measuring and fit the various parts or dig into the parts book. I use A.B.’s online catalog a lot because they list all the cars side by side that fit a particular part like gaskets. It’s a kind of quick reference. Sometimes a kit has a different part number between cars such as the king pins. I wanted to put 12 inch Chrysler brakes on my Plymouth but the Chrysler spindles had a different part number for the king pin kit. Digging deeper I found that the king pin was the same but the Chrysler had needle bearings on the top instead of a bushing. Therefore the Chrysler spindles would fit the Plymouth uprights just fine with the Chrysler king pin kit. A post on that project to follow.

When they change the ratio they sometimes have to change the differential. The third member or pumpkin stays the same. If you want economy go to a 3.54. If you want acceleration go the other direction like 3.9 or 4.1. If you choose to change your axle ratio be sure to grab the speedo gear from the donor car’s transmission ( 1 1/16 th 12 point socket fits). 3.73 is a good all around ratio so unless you want the car to perform differently I would stay with it. The rear axle didn’t change until 1957. They call that one the 8.75....which is the diameter of the ring gear. Up to 1956 the ring gear was 8.25. The Mopar 8.75 is considered one of the most desirable axles there is, Second only to the Ford 9 inch in popularity. Basically the 8.25 is a very close cousin to the 8.75 so in my opinion it is a very good axle. The 8.75 has more ratios and limited slip differentials so I don’t know why people who want to swap rear ends go with anything else. They are pricey, which is probably the reason. Unless you are making enough horse power to break your 8.25, I see no need to change it and I’ve never seen one broken, only worn. An added plus, the 8.25 was used in all the Mopar cars, but all you need to change is the pumpkin. You don’t have to buy the whole axle, so that means you don’t have to even think about widths.

There are loads of good used ones around. The nice thing about Mopars is you can use parts from all the divisions. Someone said a certain ratio was hard to find and in 10 minutes I found 4 in one year of one marque in one wrecking yard on eBay. I have seen new 3.73 on eBay. Just because they are new makes the sellers jack the prices up. A little more of a rarity is the 3.54, I bought a 56 Dodge 3rd member on aBay for $250 so they are around.