Dan Babb Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Not sure why this is happening...but I took the truck for a short drive around the block last night and heard a metal on metal sound. Looked under the car today and this is what I found. The wheels are leaning in at the top and the lower part of the spindle is rubbing the brake rotor. What could be going on here? When I put the rotors on, I tightened the nuts so that they were snug, but not restricting the movement of the wheel. I'll pull the cap off tonight and see if there's any play in it. The new engine is heavier, but not by a whole lot. I think the combined engine/trans weight is probably within a 100 or so pounds. The kingpins weren't that bad...there was just a tiny bit of play in them..barely noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You have a wheel bearing issue. Remove the wheel from the axle and report the findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Babb Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 The inner bearing is held in place by a spacer that you put on the spindle shaft (I hope). The outer bearing is held in place by the washer/castle nut. There's nothing that goes between the two bearings. Right? Wouldn't it seem strange that I have a bearing issue on both wheels (unless I installed them both wrong). That's possible, but I really took my time and read the instructions multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 My disc brake conversion also required a spacer. But it should look like the second picture when bolted up solid. Did you use the recommended bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Almost sounds as if you're questioning the order of parts installation. Without seeing the instructions, I'd say the spacer goes on the spindle first, then the inner brg. If you got them backwards (bearing, then spacer), you're going to get that rubbing. The spacer may be directional also to fit over the radius in the spindle. If that's the case, installing them backwards may give you loose brgs after a bit of running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Babb Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I've got the spacer on first...then the bearing goes in the rotor and on the shaft. Then the outer bearing goes on. I've got the wheel off and everything on the rotor seems pretty solid. The rotor doesn't wiggle enough for me to think it's a bearing problem. I haven't gotten the alignment done yet. Is it possible that with the toe now being in by about 3/8th (or whatever the thickness of the caliper mounting plate) on each side, that friction on the bottom of the tire could be pulling the wheel in at the bottom and causing the rotor to rub the plate? There isn't a whole lot of clearance between the back of the rotor and the spindle in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 My bet is you do not have the spacer on all the way, they are a bitch to get on. most times i heat the spacer in the oven and put the spindle in the freezer then put them together, that way the spindle will shrink and the spacer will expand makes it much easier to get on. No the toe out will not do it but it will scuff the snott out of the tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olddaddy Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I've been on the phone with Dan and we are working on what the problem might be. One by one we will look at the parts, installation, etc. I am inclined to agree there is a bearing problem somewhere. Dan is doing the hard part, pulling it apart and sending me pictures. I'll do the easy part and think about it long and hard till the answer pops up in front of us. Will post here when it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 It appears then that you may need a bit more spacer or you'll need to clearance the bottom of the spindle a bit. Find your tight spot with a feeler gauge or hacksaw blade It may be your bolts are sticking through the spindle and need to be shortened. Back them out a copuple turns and see if a feeler gauge will slip through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Are you sure you have the right seal for that spacer? In the first picture it doesn't look like the hub is on all the way. If the tapered bearings are being properly clamped together by the spindle nut, the excess play will allow the top of the wheels to lean inward as soon as its on the ground. I'd jack it and grab the top and bottom of the wheel and see if there is excessive play. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Also is the bearing going on square? i have had times when the bearing would c@ck to one side and everything would tighten up fine but would shift around when it had weight on it, took some time to figure that one out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossback44 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 What exactly is rubbing on the rotor? I suspect it may be one or both of the bottom bolts protruding through the caliper bracket plate. If so, grind the end of the bolt(s) off for clearance. Your attempts to adjust the bearings will be foiled by whatever the rotor is rubbing on. My guess is that the rotor is probably hitting the bolts and preventing the bearings from fully seating in their races. Your comment that the wheels are leaning in at the top strongly suggests that the bearings are not fully seated. If you can't cure the problem with a little judicious grinding to eliminate the interference, you will need longer spacers to set the inner bearings (and rotors) farther out on the spindles. As an alternative, you may be able to find some shims of appropriate ID and OD to use in conjunction with your current spacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 If you look at your first picture and compare it to the picture I posted you will see that your rotor is in all the way, not spaced evenly on the top and bottom, and is cocked. When you tightened the outer bearing nut what was your procedure? I normally run the nut in until it is tight then back off a couple of flats stopping in a location so the cotter pin can be installed. Also does the inner grease seal fit over the spacer? If not you may have the wrong seal and this could cause your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Babb Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 In the first picture, the truck was on the ground. Once I lifted up the truck, the wheel slid out to a normal position. It was almost as if something was pulling the wheel into that position while driving. I will confirm that the dust deal is going over the spacer...but it did appear to be correct when I pulled it off the truck last night. I checked last night and the rotor does sit square on the spindle shaft (it might be off by 1/32nd at most) and the shaft seems lined up and not cocked in relation to the spindle (used a small square to eyeball it). I'm going to adjust the toe just to make sure that by it being off so much, that the force of the wheel being pulled isn't yanking the bearing around inside the rotor. When I drive the truck, I'm leaving tire tread marks on the driveway, so the resistance being generated can't really be good for the bearings...right? Charlie was great on the phone last night helping out and I think we have a plan to get this right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Toe in should not put undue stress on the bearings any more than turning a corner while driving. If (once you jacked the car up) the rotor came into position I still suspect your bearings are not adjusted correctly. Jacking the car up should not have any effect on the rotor to spindel alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Babb Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 When I reassemble things, should I put the bearing on the spindle shaft...then slide the rotor on? Would that help make sure the bearing is square? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 You can't put the seal on the spindle and then install the hub. The seal has to be seated within the hub. I'd carefully remove the hub and inspect the seal, and then measure the inner diameter of the rubber portion of the seal, and the outer diameter of the spacer. They should be really close. From the pictures to me it appears that the metal housing of the seal (not the inner actual seal) is coming into contact with the outer suface of the spacer and not allowing the seal and inner bearing to be fully seated on the spindle. If you're leaving tire marks, and if things move when you jack it off the wheels something is way out of whack. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Once assembled how many threads are exposed on the outer end beyone the castleted nut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Also try putting the bearing on by itself by hand to see how tight it is on the spindle, it does not take much and it will c@ck off one way or another. if you have a hard time putting it on by hand, it will be almost impossible to do with the rotor on. also what does the leading edge of the spacer look like, is it tapered, rounded, sharp or what? it may not be letting the bearing go on easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Babb Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Went out during lunch to take a look and disassembled the passenger side. The rubber ring of the seal is nice & snug around the spacer and the metal around the seal is not interfering with it. I also measured and the spacer sits inside the rotor by the right amount ( or close). With the caliper removed, but the rotor mounted in place, there is not slop in the rotor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 From your picture it appears you are using a new rotor. New rotors do not have the bearing race installed when you buy them. What tool did you use to drive the outer and inner bearing race into the rotor hub? Did you get the race fully seated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Don. most after market rotors DO come with races installed, but sometimes the race is the wrong taper. I always use the race that comes with the bearing as they are a matched set. If you look at the pic Don posted of his spacer you will notice it is almost square on the point where the bearing goes on making it very difficult to get it on right. take that bearing and put it on the spacer and see if it goes on as i stated earlier and also see if it seats all the way to the back of the spacer. Also try putting the rotor on without the seal and look at how everything fits and see if something looks amiss. Edited September 1, 2011 by dezeldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Don. most after market rotors DO come with races installed, but sometimes the race is the wrong taper. I always use the race that comes with the bearing as they are a matched set. The new rotors I bought did not have races installed. Also when you buy bearings the cup and cone are purchased seporately so it is possible to buy the bearing without the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Babb Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I confirmed with Charlie last night that the bearings I bought do not come with a race. The rotors did have the race installed when I bought them and the bearings fit perfectly in the rotors with no wobble or slop...so everything there appears correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) I buy new rotors every week and they always have the races installed.You can buy cones and races separately or as a set-IE A1, A2 A6 ect. You always have to check the cone and races for seating fit ect. Edited September 1, 2011 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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