jd52cranbrook Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 That was 6752 total miles..... And I hate learning things the hard way........ Lots of miles of smiles. Great cars, great scenery. (I'm one of the people who actually like to drive the country), and great people. Again, good to meet you Donald, nice car. No issues going out there with the car, and none while there, other than some minor interior work I want to do now that I am back. But,, back to learning things the hard way. On the way home, west of Des Moines, IA, my engine let go, (I thought). I was driving along about 70 mph (according to my gauge, which means about 65), and it just lost power. I had been watching the temp gauge, (after market SunPro) and it seemed strange to me how quickly it would rise to 200 climbing a hill and back to 170 or less when coming down. I have had all aluminum engines before and can relate to them doing it, but not a cast block with aluminum head like I have now. At any rate, I pulled over tried the motor and it felt like it had seized. No turns, just a violent jolt when trying to turn it over. I thought $%&t, something broke. Also I poured water into the radiator and saw water coming out the exhaust manifold where it met the tail pipe. So I called AAA for a tow, and while waiting called my machinist to chew him out,,,, After describing what happened and answering questions from him, he thought I blew a head gasket. Now I have done that before on other motors, and they all seemed to keep running but missed like crazy. This was a new one on me. He explained a possible scenario; The radiator cap I had could be faulty, letting water out when hot, but not sucking in when cold. I did check the levels each am before starting out but that particular stretch was hilling at some points in the am. Also the cap I had have the red lever on it to relieve pressure before opening. It did have the two rubber washers on it, one at the very top, and one at the bottom. He said he didn't trust the ones with the levers as air could get in, hence bubbles in the recovery tank like I was mentioning in previous threads. Long story longer. Head got to hot and let go. After the gasket broke, the integrity was lost, and the water got let into both 3 and 4 cylinders, causing hydraulic lockup. So the motor would not crank. So while waiting for the tow truck, I pulled the head. ( call me Joe Mechanic, lol). And bingo, blown gasket between cylinders 3,4. I had a spare USED one with me. I did not want to carry a new one and bend it somehow on the trip. I put it in, filled it with water the tow truck driver took me to get, and cranked it up. No fire, poured some gas in the carbs, no go. So I clenched my teeth, thought if it was not going to start it would not be because of effort. I turned the key over with my 12 volts going into my 6 volt starter and let it rip. After 5 seconds it started to cough, I pumped the pedal, and in my rear view mirror a big pillar of steam and water shot out of my tailpipe. I had to blow out all the water that accumulated in the pipe. lol. After that, it ran like a top. I think I have a warped head, but will take it off soon to find out for sure. It felt like I drove across each state's hottest day of the year coming home. I didn't use the AC home as I did not want to add temp to the already hurt head. But it started everyday after and did everything I asked of it. Climbed every hill in overdrive. (love the torque) Now, anyone else have a explanation as to why it went when it did? I am still not completely convinced it was all the caps fault. But all in all, what a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 What a roadside repair! Sounds like a real adventure. I'm glad you made it back, and didn't have to ride a flatbed home. Been there, done that. Glad we could meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Like they said about old Triumph motorcycles, if you aren't able to rebuild it beside the road, don't ride one:D How tight did you have the head bolts before the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Road Warrior Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 JD, glad you made it home. Sounded like quite and adventure. I'd love to see the look on the AAA guy when he showed up and you had your head off. "What do you need me for"? Thanx for the seat time on Woodward, that's a great cruising car and moves pretty good for a 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd52cranbrook Posted August 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Hey Norm, I had replaced the head gasket before I left and torqued to 50 lbs. I got that number from Earl Edgerton whom I bought the aluminum head from. I didn't have torque wrench with me, but it felt to be more this time with a 3/8 drive socket wrench. I rechecked the bolts the next morning and I didn't feel any movement. It may be weird but, I cant tell you how good I felt seeing the broken head gasket and not a valve or piston. Knowing I had a chance to drive the car home and not leave it somewhere was such a good feeling I was more then happy to do the work on the side of the road. It was hot hot hot, and sweat was pouring out all over the car, but I was smiling, ,,,, I have not seen bubbles in the recovery tank since, . But I do remember it took a while for them to reappear the last time. I am keeping a watch on it. Donald, to me it was a great experience, but the drive home without the AC was pretty bad. I left each day at about 5 am to miss as much as I could. I would not take the car back to Detroit without trailering it next time. Even then, 4 days out, 4 days back is not something I want to do every year either. Marc, good to see you too. Surprised what a little work will do these engines, and cars. I am going to contact Earl again, and investigate relieving some heat problems if possible with this head, or maybe modify another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 It's great to drive a car basic enough to repair like that in a fix. I agree with you, for a trip that long, I would only want to take my P24 if I had all the time in the world (read months) to cruise and enjoy. I forgot you had the alloy head. The cast iron head takes a much higher torque setting. That area between #3 and 4 is really skinny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Since we are contemplating a trip of about 1800 miles (750 each way plus some running around miles) your trip is a reality check. I was talking about the trip from Central NY to South Central North Carolina, and a fellow said "That's quite a ways to trailer a car, what are you towing with?" I looked at him for a while and said "It's a car! We're planning on driving it." He looked at me like I was crazy and said he wouldn't think of driving is car that far. His car, by the way, was a 56 Chevy with basically all new running gear, from a crate engine to remanufactured transmission, new drive shaft and rebuild rear axle. I told his it was too bad to have spent all that money and not have gotten a reliable car. He seemed to get a bit upset by my comment, go figure..... Any way I added one of my slightly used head gaskets to our traveling kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 JD, (When you read "JD", imagine that it's Uncle Jessie of the ?Dukes of Hazzard speaking.) JD, you had the luxury of fixing your car beside the road without having the wife doing a slow burn while you were planning and executing your masterful repairs. Circumstances dictated that your wife flew while you drove. Or did you plan it that way? My wife won't go any distance with me in the DeSoto. Strike one was running out of gas on the way home from a DeSoto meet. An hour, plus, with only imrpovised rest room facilities. Strike 2 was blowing the engine on the way to another meet. She got to ride in the cab of the flatbed, while I got the skyline view in the DeSoto. Since then, I've been fouling them off. - Granddaaughter's inertia made the middle seat lurch on its tracks, making a real scarey sound (Scared grandma, not granddaughter; concerned me, till I found out what the noise was). - Gas gauge reads zero until it warms up (I think I explained it adequately). - Klunk-o-matic made some indecisive but loud sounds as it attempted an upshift. (Hasn't done it since; may check the transmission oil level some day.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd52cranbrook Posted August 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Uncle Jessie It was two fold; 1. She could not miss that much work. And, 2. I wouldn't have had it any other way on a long trip,,,,, The reasoning for number 2 was also two fold. a. I like to drive long distances alone, to think, enjoy, or whatever. b. Specifically what you stated. I would be too worried about her convenience or safety even. Heck, I might even sacrifice the car's welfare, and replace it with hers. I should add, (in case she reads this), that Kathleen travels with me frequently in the car. I think she enjoys it as much as I do. And she has logged a large amount of time working with me on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Lucky guy. Don't you just love a good tale that has romance, a happy ending, and a Plymouth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Any way I added one of my slightly used head gaskets to our traveling kit. SLIGHTLY USED????? Either is is pregnant or not:confused: I carried a new head gasket with me on the Tulsa trip. It fits nicely on my package shelf. I also carry a spare thermostat gasket, water pump gasket, and by-pass gasket. I have an assortment of freeze plugs and other replacement items in my tool box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Huh!!! Another head gasket effetist. I have reused head gaskets on Mopar flatheads on several occassions without a problem. Heard tell you have reused Briggs and Stratton gaskets, and what is a MOPAR flathed but a liquid cooled B$S X 6????? Besides, the one I'm thinking of packing is one of them ellusive all copper deals, which I am told, unlike cider apples, will hold up to a number of squeezins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Huh!!! Another head gasket effetist. I have reused head gaskets on Mopar flatheads on several occassions without a problem. Heard tell you have reused Briggs and Stratton gaskets, and what is a MOPAR flathed but a liquid cooled B$S X 6?????Besides, the one I'm thinking of packing is one of them ellusive all copper deals, which I am told, unlike cider apples, will hold up to a number of squeezins. Greg; Where did you find the all copper deal? I would like to find one for my Soto engine. How thick is the all copper deal? It is my understanding you can anneal them between uses and they will last foreaver. And yes I have used Briggs head gaskets multiple times. Difference is no water and no thin spot between cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Got it off ebay a couple years ago. I believe they were primarily for marine engine applications. You might have some luck looking for a Chyrsler Crown Marine engine. I put it on under my Edmunds head and then found he head to be toast. When I got the Gasket set for the P28 rebuild, I used the head gasket that was in he rebuild kit, and still have the copper one on the shelf. The Crysler Crowns were 265 engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Muma Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 You can get copper head gaskets from http://www.husseycopper.com/HusseyGasket/Gasket%20Catalog%20-%20Rev%2012%20-%2008-06.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd52cranbrook Posted August 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Carquest also carries them. At least all copper on one side and they lip over to the other side about 1/8 inch all around, then its fiber between the circles. GSK 1059C But as you can see they are actually Victor Reinz, 1264 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 An all copper gasket is just a piece of copper, no filler, no composit. Most modern gaskets are a sandwich of several materials. I don't know the thickness of mine but it is less than a compsite, so it probably makes a bit more compression, than standard fare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd52cranbrook Posted August 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Really? how much more compression,, HP? This is just one complete piece of copper on one side of the gasket, good enough for me. My cam grind will make up for the loss in HP,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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