Coil and distributor wiring issues

[Danokerr]

So i have a 50 wayfarer. I did some motor work to the car. Im putting the car back together and re wiring the car back to original. Its hard to see the wire colors compared to the book, since its so faded. It also doesnt help that the previous owner mustve wanted to get the car running with home theater speaker wire. Anyways i have the distributor and coil in it. No spark. The coil is wired into the horn relay such as the book says. I would appreciate it if someone can give me some guidance since im 21 and this is my first full blown project car. The old girl is all stock and has the 6 volt positive ground on it. 

[greg g]

Do you have a meter or circuit tester? Are you sure the horn circuit is getting power with ignition on?  As a temp work around you can fashion a jumper wire with alligator clips on each end. Then use it to power the coil from the battery.  Remember you have a positive ground system.  So the jumper wire needs to go to the neg terminal of the coil, the pos terminal to the points terminal on the dist.  To try to start, connect the jumper from the bat neg to coil neg.  To shut down disconnect one of the clips. You can repower the coil with a wire from the run terminal on the ign switch through the firewall to the coil if the original circuit proves unreliable.  Do the horns work???

[Danokerr]

Yes i have a meter. I am getting power 6.23 volts to be exact. The horn currently is out of the car. I have the issue when it comes to the points i think. I have power at the points constant on the non stationary point. So it is constanstly hot.. 

[greg g]

There is a thin flexible wire inside the dist connecting the coil wire to the points.  This can loose insulation and cause an inadvertantly ground. Or it can fail inside the insulation and cause problems as it flexes as the breaker plate moves with advance.  If you need to replace it you need to us a flexible wire not regular plastic insulated stuff from the hardware store.

[Danokerr]

I have 2 wires in the dist. Both are flexible almost looks like fusible link. Both wires are just connected with ring terminals. On goes from a stud by the post stud connecting from the body to the points. When i disconnect that wire i can visably watch the points get power between closing and opening

[Lloyd]

Thats the ground wire you are disconnecting? It should go from the base plate - the very bottom plate to the stationary side of the points - the bottom plate the points mount on.

Have you got a pic of it connected and disconnected?

[Danokerr]

I dont have a pic yet currently battling a ice storm my shop is 35 minutes away ill get one tomorrow lol

[Danokerr]

Please forgive me as well I'm new to the whole forum things 

[Lloyd]

Not at all. Welcome to the forum. Over the years I’ve got a lot of help from here. It’s the best on the net for Chrysler’s. 

Sounds like the ground wire you are disconnecting and I don’t see how disconnecting that wire will put fire to the points. Unless it’s hooked up wrong to begin with. Like to see what wire it is. Should be a wire from the coil and the condenser wire connected to the points terminal. Then a ground wire from the base plate to the stationary side of the points. 

[Danokerr]

So i finally got some pictures today. Here is the pictures of the distributor with the wire going to the condenser. All ways hot open and closedThe pictures of the dist

[Lloyd]

I see you are bench testing. Is the distributor housing grounded? You should install the condenser as well. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Lloyd
Addition comment

[greg g]

Those blue or gray wires with the blu ends are way to thick.  Not necessarily your current problem but they won't allow for proper breaker plate movement.

[kencombs]

Can you provide either a diagram of your test set up, or a pic showing the connections, power source etc? 

[Danokerr]

It still does the same thing even with it in the car. I took the distributor out for demonstration yes it is grounded. The condensor is installed just not in the holding plate for the sake of pictures. 

 

Those wires are super flexible quite honestly not sure what wire to buy. I had some wire from a harness i had sitting and used that. But greg g what do you mean by movement? The terminals or the wires. 

 

The set up is a 6 volt  battery. Farm and fleet brand battery chargrd at 6.24 volts. Connected to a autolite coil i have the part number in my book. Im not sure how old but when i ground the coil out i get spark from the center wire connected to a plug. I can draw out a diagram for you tomorrow. And get more pictures of it in the car. 

 

I guess im having a hard time trouble shooting this problem. The points are clean. The coil is producing spark when i ground it. The manual doesnt say it has a ballast resistor. So my guess its something grounded in the distributor

 

I wasnt too sure how to post pictures on here. It seems to be photobucket has some wierd pop up issue. Anyways ill get more pictures tomorrow since i know ir work's thanks everybody 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Danokerr

[Lloyd]

I believe what Greg is concerned about is the breaker plate moving with the vacuum advance.

 

If you still show hot on the points terminal with the points closed then they are not grounding. Disconnect the wires from the points terminal and use your ohm meter on each side of the points with the points closed. Do you have continuity? If not then check the contact areas of the points themselves. Make sure they are clean and not burnt. You can also keep one lead on the terminal and touch the other lead to the contact area of the same side. Should have continuity. Do the same to the other side. If you can get your leads in there, you can also close the points and then touch each contact area - just the tiny edge of the contact pad of each side and see if you get continuity. Then keep one lead on the hot side of the points and take the lead you have on the opposite side of the points and place it on the base plate of the points, then place it on the plate the points attach to, then touch it to the ground wire, both sides, then place it on the housing of the distributor. Keep chasing the path the electricity should be going to ground leaving one lead on the hot terminal until you get continuity. Wherever you get it and don't get it there is a break.

 

If you think you have a grounded wire you can check that to by disconnecting both ends and then using your ohm meter touch an end of the wire and touch the other lead to a ground. You can also check if a wire is broken inside just by disconnecting both ends and checking both ends with your ohm meter.

 

One possibility might be the condenser is shorted out. Did you try disconnecting it from the points terminal, opening the points and see if you still have a light?

 

You have an ohm meter and it works really good for checking connections if you just sit back and think about what your system should and should not be doing.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Lloyd
Additional comment

[Danokerr]

So I have continuity when the points are closed. When removing the wire connected by the main stud I can see the points opening by the test light. I'm guessing it has something to do with the wire. Is there supposed to be a insulator or something. https://photos.app.goo.gl/g4NSQDqEgA6gM1GF2

[Lloyd]

It looks like the wire you are removing is going from the coil connection to the points? The question I would have is that wire is the power wire to the points which makes your test light come on so how is your test light coming on with the wire disconnected?

The connection may be grounded, disconnect the coil wire where it connects to the outside of the distributor and also the wire that connects to the inside - same wire you have disconnected in your picture. Now touch your ohm meter to the terminal outside the distributor where the coil wire connects and then touch the other lead to the distributor housing.

You should not have continuity. If you do then that terminal is grounded. Also make sure the terminal on the points where the wires connect is not grounded. With all wires disconnected from the points put one lead from your ohm meter to the terminal on the points where the wires connect and the other to the distributor housing. You should not have continuity. If you do then the input terminal for the points is grounded.

 

[kencombs]

21 hours ago, Danokerr said:

So I have continuity when the points are closed. When removing the wire connected by the main stud I can see the points opening by the test light. I'm guessing it has something to do with the wire. Is there supposed to be a insulator or something. https://photos.app.goo.gl/g4NSQDqEgA6gM1GF2

I'm having a difficult time following your process.  You have continuity between what test points when the points are closed?  When you remove the wire and see the points opening, where are your test points? 

 

Maybe it's me, (probably), but I can't tell this from any of the pics as the wire, probe or something is always in the way.

[Danokerr]

On 4/26/2018 at 3:41 PM, kencombs said:

I'm having a difficult time following your process.  You have continuity between what test points when the points are closed?  When you remove the wire and see the points opening, where are your test points? 

 

Maybe it's me, (probably), but I can't tell this from any of the pics as the wire, probe or something is always in the way.

After I read your post I get why you didn't understand. So to start I took my digital multimeter against the stationary and moving point plate, with the points open to see if I'm getting continuity between the points as they are open, I wasn't getting continuity so that's that. 

 

Then I removed the wire going to the plate to power the points and the condenser, powered up the distributor on the bench with a battery. And put my test light on the point terminal and when the points were open the light was off. Closed the light was on. When you connect that power wire back to the point power terminal, the test light stays lit open, and closed. 

 

[kencombs]

49 minutes ago, Danokerr said:

After I read your post I get why you didn't understand. So to start I took my digital multimeter against the stationary and moving point plate, with the points open to see if I'm getting continuity between the points as they are open, I wasn't getting continuity so that's that. 

 

Then I removed the wire going to the plate to power the points and the condenser, powered up the distributor on the bench with a battery. And put my test light on the point terminal and when the points were open the light was off. Closed the light was on. When you connect that power wire back to the point power terminal, the test light stays lit open, and closed. 

 

where is the light connected during the red test??

[Danokerr]

The test light was touching where the breaker points get power the terminal on top

2 minutes ago, kencombs said:

where is the light connected during the red test??

 

[Lloyd]

When you remove that wire powering the points and condenser you should not show any light at all. That wire is the power wire. Disconnect it and you have no power. So why is your trouble light lit at the points terminal with the wire disconnected?

The wire from the coil is connected to the outside of the distributor. Then it goes into the distributor where your wire connects and takes the power to the points. That’s your circuit. If your points show power with the wire disconnected then there must be a ground in that circuit. 

As I mentioned in a previous post, disconnect the coil wire from the outside of the distributor. Disconnect the condenser and power wire from the points terminal. Now using your ohm meter check for continuity between the terminal on the outside of the distributor where your coil wire connects and the distributor base plate where the ground wire is connected on the inside of the distributor or just touch the distributor housing. 

Do you have continuity?

[Danokerr]

Sorry for the delay the last few weeks has been rough. Anyways I have continuity between the main power connection to the dist to the body of the dist. And continuity at the point plate