1954 hop up info and dyno results

[greg g]

Don't know if you folks have seen it yet so this notice is to 0int this out.  Member Mark Duggan has posted scans of an article from a 1954 Speed Mechanics magazine detailing the addition of performance parts to a 53 Plymouth with a 218 engine.  The arrivals give dyno readings for each change. 

So now we have documented results for the question is there a difference.   The dyno numbers in the articicle are very much in line with what I encountered with my modified 230.  Please note that they are not running peak pull HP but measuring HP at real world rpms, and three is no aero drag number added in.  When I did mine there was a data entry for this aero HP load.  There was no data for the old Plymouth so we used the average from several mini vans listed in the dyno makers data files.  This average was 51 HP which was added to the dyno pull to calculate total HP .  My car with the bored 230, with milled head and deck, and dual carbs but single exhaust. My raw number at 62 mph/3280 rpm (62mph) was 76, which is in line with their finding of 67 HP for the 218.  Add in the 51 aero HP and you get rear wheel HP of 118 for the 218 and 127 for the 230.  According to their numbers, I would add 2 to 3 HP for dual exhaust.  Not enough to justify a change at this point.  But it seems the answers to the questions of what it does and is it worth it are answered in these old articles.  The info is in the downloads section for you information.  Thanks Mark.

I found it by using the unread new files button one the upper right of the header bar next to the search icon.

 

 

 

G hi p

Bb

[55 Fargo]

12 minutes ago, greg g said:

Don't know if you folks have seen it yet so this notice is to 0int this out.  Member Mark Duggan has posted scans of an article from a 1954 Speed Mechanics magazine detailing the addition of performance parts to a 53 Plymouth with a 218 engine.  The arrivals give dyno readings for each change. 

So now we have documented results for the question is there a difference.   The dyno numbers in the articicle are very much in line with what I encountered with my modified 230.  Please note that they are not running peak pull HP but measuring HP at real world rpms, and three is no aero drag number added in.  When I did mine there was a data entry for this aero HP load.  There was no data for the old Plymouth so we used the average from several mini vans listed in the dyno makers data files.  This average was 51 HP which was added to the dyno pull to calculate total HP .  My car with the bored 230, with milled head and deck, and dual carbs but single exhaust. My raw number at 62 mph/3280 rpm (62mph) was 76, which is in line with their finding of 67 HP for the 218.  Add in the 51 aero HP and you get rear wheel HP of 118 for the 218 and 127 for the 230.  According to their numbers, I would add 2 to 3 HP for dual exhaust.  Not enough to justify a change at this point.  But it seems the answers to the questions of what it does and is it worth it are answered in these old articles.  The info is in the downloads section for you information.  Thanks Mark.

I found it by using the unread new files button one the upper right of the header bar next to the search icon.

 

 

 

G hi p

Bb

You had 127 to the rear wheels and your drivetrain 3 spd standard not a lot of parasitic loss.

Big ? What was your peak torque and at what RPM?

I would reckon fairly low in the RPM band as your cam is dead stock?

[greg g]

Keep in mind my engine is a 56 230.  It was rated at 125 HP at 3600 at the flywheel. Torque was 200 a 2000 rpm.  The torque number didn't stick out much as there wasn't a great change, I believe it was 203/205 at 1860 rpm.  If you use 25% for frictional losses through the drive train, my series of mods  has over come that loss.  Or going the other way added 25 or 30 to the flywheel rating. I didn't take it to 3600, the pull was done at an indicated 65 mph which was 3280 rpm (62 mph actual) so there might have been a couple ponies left in the barn and maybe a torque or two left untwisted also.  These numbers seem fairly close to what was developed by the 218.  Which validates what I have been saying all along.  A street built 201 will equal a stock 218, a built 218 will equal a stock 230, and a built 230 is the best of all even better maybe than a 251 with the same modifications.  The last Chrysler Windsor 6 only made 119 at the flywheel as did the last DeSoto 6. The last Dodge 230 put out 135 hp and 205 torque.  I am in no way indicating that the way I did mine is the best, the most powerful, or the optimum way to do it, just reflecting the similarities to other printed data, rather than seat of the pants feelings. That and the fact that it has been trouble free to nearly 40,000 miles. 

So as a review

1956 P28 230

Bored .030, Egge piston and rings

Head milled .040

Block decked .010

Balanced rotating parts

Solid one piece copper head gasket (marine engine)

Stock camshaft, intake and exhaust ports ground to match gaskets.

Lightened flywheel 

Fenton dual carb intake, George Ashe Carbs, one inch phenolic spacers, home made air cleaner with paper filter

Single exhaust 2 inch inside diameter all pipes

Dynomax Turbo flow muffler

1954Dodge Truck distributer, solid core spark plug wires, stock coil, AC 46 spark plugs. Initial timing 6° BTDC

Stock bearings, new cam bearings, new timing gears and chain. (Terrell Machine)

Think that covers it.

 

 

[55 Fargo]

I believe you did well with your engine.

Your miles and performance verify this.

I still think you have the nicest P15 going....

 

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, greg g said:

 

"...and a built 230 is the best of all even better maybe than a 251 with the same modifications. "

 

Greg,how do you figure that? Surely with equal modifications the larger displacement engine will put out more HP and torque?

If you are saying the gain in power for a street engine isn't enough to justify the expense of buying a 251,modifying it,and then installing it where a 218/230 went,I'm not going to argue with that,but with everything else being equal,there is no substitution for cubic inches if you are seeking more power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greg g]

Just noting that the given mods if applied to a 116 HP 251 you would have less than if you build a motor based on a 125, 132, or 135 HP 230.  Say the given mods add 25 HP to both engines, the 251 will put out 141 flywheel HP but the 125 HP will be at 150. Maybe the 230 is the most thermally efficient unit among the bunch.

[55 Fargo]

The 230 is no slouch ( ever road in Georges 50 Plymouth) but 265 is king with the beastly 4 3/4 stroke bored .060 over results in a fair amount of displacement.

1 thing a long block.has over the short is no offset rods...

 

[knuckleharley]

I was just curious.  I  managed to find and buy cheap a good running 251 from a DeSoto that I was going to put in my 42 coupe,but then ran across a 55 Plymouth parts car with a 230 and automatic trans. I might still use the 251,but not if the 230 doesn't need major rebuilding when I get that far into the build. I LOVE torque,but have no real interest in racing anybody but flathead V-8 Fords. (grin)