Spitfire motor

[BillyBoySmith]

Hi, You've probably been asked this question many times already, but here goes :- Will a DeSoto 'Spitfire' flathead (out of a 1950 D/Soto) fit directly on to the mounts of a 230 Dodge Wayfarer or would there be some fabrication needed. I am aware that the D/Soto motor is 2 inches longer,- just wondering if it would fit without too much engineering. Any advice welcome.Regards B.B.  p.s I know that the 'Spitfire' logo is just a marketing ploy.

[DonaldSmith]

Don Coatney put a 25-inch DeSoto engine in his Plymouth.  Doable, but radiator gets moved and cross member gets wallowed out.  

[timkingsbury]

Hi BillyBoySmith -

Depending on where your car was built, its quite possible in 1949 the frame was  made in Hespler Ontario and shipped to the assembly plant in Detroit, in which case the holes are already drilled in the frame to turn the bracket and move the rad ahead.   Some of the Dodge Wayfarer's I saw in England were Plymouths with Dodge badging.    In any case had your car been made in Windsor like by 1949 Plymouth, whether the Plymouth or the Dodge it would have the 25 1/2" big block in it and the cross member is the exact same part number in the Canadian and the USA car.

I can certainly put you in touch with people who have made the change and depending where you are in England maybe even someone close to you.

 

Tim

fargopickupking@yahoo.com

ps: The use of Spitfire was far more a tribute than it was a marketing ploy, but that is another discussion

 

 

 

[dpollo]

Putting the 25 inch engine in a car which was built for the 23 inch engine is not that difficult but on some  Plymouths , the  steering box is further forward on cars built with the 25 inch engine  which results in the tie rods hitting the oil pan.  Some minor massaging with a hammer might be needed.  Other differences as noted above  include the radiator and it may also be necessary on some frames to modify the area ahead of the front pulley.

Cars built with the 25 inch engine also may have had heavier front springs and use needle bearings on the top of the king pin instead of the bronze bushing.  The Spitfire series engines were 251s and  the cylinder head with the Spitfire letters seems to be most popular on 49 Chryslers. It was not a performance option but looks great. As it was intended for use on the 251, putting it on a Canadian 218 or 228 resulted in lower compression.

[Don Coatney]

I had to modify my oil pan as pictured. I also had to modify my front cross member as pictured.

 

[dpollo]

Nice work, Don,  and great self explanatory pictures.  I think I may have hit Unlike instead of Like on your posting and if so, I apologize.

The pan used on 53 and 54 Plymouths with the 25 inch engine has a shorter sump.   Hard to find nowadays.  

[BillyBoySmith]

Many thanks Guys. Sounds like a little too much work for very little gain. The old Wayfarer runs great but uses too much oil for my liking. - (No leaks and no smoke, just oil thirsty).  Looks like a strip 'n' rebuild on the original motor. Regards once again, BB.  p.s. (might try a 2 x carb set up & compression boost to gimme a little more power).

Edited December 9, 2016 by BillyBoySmith

[_shel_ny]

3 hours ago, BillyBoySmith said:

 The old Wayfarer runs great but uses too much oil for my liking. - (No leaks and no smoke, just oil thirsty).

So where is the oil going if it is not leaking, or burning      Is your neighbor stopping by to get oil for his vehicle ?? 

[BillyBoySmith]

Ha Ha. I use a special smokeless, odourless oil - Top secret.

[timkingsbury]

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 7:59 PM, BillyBoySmith said:

Many thanks Guys. Sounds like a little too much work for very little gain. The old Wayfarer runs great but uses too much oil for my liking. - (No leaks and no smoke, just oil thirsty).  Looks like a strip 'n' rebuild on the original motor. Regards once again, BB.  p.s. (might try a 2 x carb set up & compression boost to gimme a little more power).

Hi Billy -    Its very possible I am not seeing all of the posts as I have people blocked, but I would say to you  that there is a big difference between your 1949 dodge and lets say a 1948 Plymouth  that I had in the past seen people hacking frames and oil pans and other builds.  It sounds like your going to need to pull your engine to address its using oil and likely just time for a rebuild, so if you have the Canadian big block, why not see if it fits ?     Id suggest starting with the super easy stuff.  Look to see if the frame is pre-drilled for the rad push forward .   If it isn't that doesn't mean its tough to do, but if they are then its a clue of how easy it could be.      As well through the serial number of the car where it was assembled would be an easy but important piece of the puzzle.  If it was Detroit, then that frame  is the same frame and cross member as used in Windsor Ontario Canada where every Dodge  (non-convertible) had a 25 1/2" big block.   At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with rebuilding what you have  and using that, but if you want to upgrade to the 25 1/2" big block its very possible its easier than you may be lead to believe.       The big key here being its a 1949 Dodge, not a pre-1949 Plymouth !

 

[BillyBoySmith]

Many thanks again for your input guys. I have recently managed to find a D34 engine here in England, and I am gonna do a total strip and rebuild on it. After this, I will pull out the non original Plymouth engine and replace it with this freshly built one.  Can anyone post a picture of the camshaft for this engine ?? I broke a lug off the sprocket mount and I'm unsure wether it is part of the camshaft, or a seperate part that is cam driven. The Dodge factory w/shop manual is absolutely rubbish, - doesn't tell me enough. regards, BB.