47heaven Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 I received the bad news today that the reason my car is overheating was not only caused by poor circulation, but the mechanic discovered that the head gasket was blown and possibly the head may be cracked, but that isn't yet confirmed...not until the head is taken off to see. I think this was caused the day I went to the mountains and the car got to 210 degrees and boiled over right before I pulled off. The mechanic told me that flatheads are good engines, but do not like to get hot, which I'm sure has been mentioned on here before. Anyway, I've decided to have the engine rebuilt, not just because of the damage it had already, but because I don't know what had and hadn't been done to the engine before I got it. Also, I just want everything to be fresh and new. I'm getting tired of seeing everyone's pics of their shiny, rebuilt engines and mine looks like crap. My mechanic, who is an older gentleman that is familiar with flatheads, is going to do some research on parts in the next couple of days and get back to me about a price. He also does the machining in his own shop, as well. He said that I'm looking at about $2500...give or take. I also told him that I would like to split the manifold as well. Are there any places that sell complete rebuild kits for a 1955 230cid flathead that anyone here has dealt with? I'm familiar with Egge, but I recalled that they were more favorable to Ford and Chevy. I thought about asking the gurus here so that I can help save the mecahnic some searching time. Quote
Normspeed Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 How about Kanter? I think they sell 3 levels of rebuild kits. Never made any major purchases from them though. Also heard wonderful things about Terrill Machine in TX. It's way more likely that just the gasket is blown and not the head. These are very tough motors and one boilover may not have done as much damage as you might think. Is your mechanic talking that much just for the labor and machine work? If so, that's pretty high for our area. Mine was less than that including parts, machine work and labor. Not that I would recommend the same shop that did mine... Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Norm, $2500 isn't all that bad if the mechanic has to pull and install the engine to rebuild it. Depending on what's needed cost of parts should run you about $600 to $800 and up. I didn't buy all my parts from the same place. If you want to see where my parts come from click on the link below (next to signature), they're listed there. Darin, that said, the other Norm is right. It's unlikely the head cracked. It may be warped though, and probably is. That's an easy fix, just have to mill it flat again. But, like you said, it's nice to have a totally rebuilt fresh engine. Then at least you know everything is good to start out with. You could still have problems though. Just need to look at Pete's (blueskies) recent problem with the wrist pins. His engine was totally rebuilt and he just got a bad pin. Not much you can do about that. It's just the luck of the draw. Quote
PatS.... Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Rebuild kits available here: WWW.COLLECTORSAUTOSUPPLY.COM EMAIL: SALES@COLLECTORSAUTOSUPPLY.COM TOLL FREE: 1-888-772-7848 (1-888 R PART 4 U) FAX: 1-250-767-3340 OROVILLE, WASHINGTON, USA PEACHLAND, BRITISH COLIMBIA, CANADA ESTABLISHED 1988 Quote
james curl Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 I got all of my parts from Terrell Machine in De Leon Texas. He has an ad in Hemmings every month in the Chrysler section. Parts ran about $1000.00 and machine work ran another $750.00 and I did all of the removing, replacing, tear down and rebuild so had no outside labor cost. Had to have the Harmonic Damper rebult and that was another $180.00. Jim Terrell at Terrell Machine also rebuilt my vacuun advance. I installed a new water pump and oil pump plus had my generator and starter rebuilt at the same time. I do not think that $2500.00 is out of line. Time I got my clutch relined, pressure plate rebuilt a new throw out bearing plus the cost of the harmonic damper, and generator and starter rebuild I have close to $2500.00 in mine without carbs, manifolds and exhaust system for duals. Quote
greg g Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Got my stuff from Terrill and Egge, depending on price. I think I spent 750 or so on the parts. machining an labor was about 900. I believe it is nearly impossible to crack a MoPaR head from one overheating, that is kinda whey the head gasket blows to get you off the road before you do serious damage. Warped yes Cracked no. So here is a little hop oppurtunity for you. Tell his to make sure the block is true, and even if it is tell him to deck it .010 to assure it is nice and square and level. Then tell him to take .040 off the head. This will give you about 8 to 1 compression ratio, and give yo a nice little boost in performance for about 40 buck wothr of machine time. Quote
47heaven Posted June 30, 2007 Author Report Posted June 30, 2007 Norm (CA) -That price is for everything...labor, machining and parts. That was just his estimate, but I told him that was about what my budget would allow...though it will hurt. Norm (coupe) - Hopefully, my luck of the draw will be better than blueskies. I'm going to try to be optimistic about this whole thing as much as possible. Again, we won't know about the head until it's taken off. I'm really hoping that it's not craked and not too warped. Pat - Thanks for the posting of the Collectors Auto Supply price chart. I'm forwarding that to the mechanic to look at. James- it sounds like you got a lot done for $2500. I guess doing a lot of the stuff yourself did help save some money. Sorry, but what is a harmonic damper. Seriously...I never heard of it. Greg Thanks for the decking info. I will pass that along to him. I recall him looking at an Egge catalog on car parts for my car when I was there. Would like him to get a complete rebuild kit from one source, if possible. Quote
Normspeed Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Pat, that's interesting. Your catalog page is identical to the Kanter page but some slight price variations. Darin, if the guy does a good job, and if that's a complete job, not such a bad deal. PM me if you want. I do know a pretty good exhaust shop in Irwindale. Same to you, Mackster. Quote
james curl Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Darin, the Harmonic Damper/balancer is the front pulley assembly on most engines. If you remove the front pulley assembly you should find a bonded elastimar between the pulley and the balancer which dampens the torsional vibrations in the crankshaft. Quote
Allan Faust Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Rebuild kits available here:WWW.COLLECTORSAUTOSUPPLY.COM EMAIL: SALES@COLLECTORSAUTOSUPPLY.COM TOLL FREE: 1-888-772-7848 (1-888 R PART 4 U) FAX: 1-250-767-3340 OROVILLE, WASHINGTON, USA PEACHLAND, BRITISH COLIMBIA, CANADA ESTABLISHED 1988 Pat, that is an exact reproduction of a Kanter catalog page..... if its someone in the states, I'd talk with Kanter... in my case, it would've been good to know before the engine shop got my motor.... might've saved me some searchin.... but I can probably still get parts from them anyways... (stuff I'm missing)... better than doing cross border shopping sometimes.... (UPS and their brokerage fees, etc.... hassles with wait times, etc). Allan Quote
Allan Faust Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Pat, do you know if the prices are in Can $ (can't see it anywhere on the site). Allan Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Problem with buying a "kit" is you will most likely not get what you need. If you bore the cylinders .030" over, turn the mains .010" under, and turn the rod journals .005" under the kit will not work unless the vendor will custom make the kit with the specific sizes required. Also you never know what you will need until the engine is completely disassembled and measurements are taken. I have found it better to buy exactly what you need from different sources as the cost will most likely be lower in the end. I have also found it is better to let the machine shop supply many of the parts as they can do the machine work to fit the new parts. Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Problem with buying a "kit" is you will most likely not get what you need. If you bore the cylinders .030" over, turn the mains .010" under, and turn the rod journals .005" under the kit will not work unless the vendor will custom make the kit with the specific sizes required. Also you never know what you will need until the engine is completely disassembled and measurements are taken. I have found it better to buy exactly what you need from different sources as the cost will most likely be lower in the end. I have also found it is better to let the machine shop supply many of the parts as they can do the machine work to fit the new parts. Darin, I agree with Don. I didn't buy any parts for my engine rebuild until after I tore it down and we looked at what had to be done, and any extra I just wanted to do. Then I only bought the parts I actually needed for that. Did not buy the valves or pistons & rings until after the engine was done by the machine shop. I also let the machine shop furnish the pistons, piston pins and rings. The machine shop also fit the pistons onto the arms for us. All we did was put the pistons and rings in after getting it all back from the machine shop. Buying kits you always have left overs, and like Don mentioned your parts may not fit properly. It's just like buying gasket sets. I still have gaskets left over in the set that I'll probably never use. So, don't buy anything (except maybe the head gasket) until you have the engine apart to see what you really need. Quote
James_Douglas Posted June 30, 2007 Report Posted June 30, 2007 Norm, I think I would suggest is to get a better than average head gasket. The two choices in this category are to have a solid copper gasket made or buy a high quality copper sandwich gasket from "Best" gaskets. I would only do the first option if I need to dial in a certain compression ratio due to a deck and/or head that needed a lot taken off to get it correct. I would also do it if I went with a CR over about 9:1. Sans those issues, Best Gasket makes a much better than standard gasket. The price difference is not even much of an issue given everything else involved in an engine tear down. If you purchase parts from Egge, which I did for my rebuild, you must TELL EGGE you want the "Best Gaskets" or you will get some NORS stuff that may or may not be of very high quality. Best is just down the road from Egge and they deliver to them every day so it is not a big deal. One other thing. The real seals on the early crankshaft are knurled for the rope seal I think and if you use a latter seal you need to have that turned smooth. I am not up on this as my NOS crankshaft was smooth. Someone here with specifics on this may want to chime in. Best, James Quote
norrism1 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Posted July 1, 2007 I got my pistons, pins, valves, bearings and gasket sets all from TRW back in '95 Quote
Suddensix Posted July 1, 2007 Report Posted July 1, 2007 Darin, Did you get my reply re: ash trays as I have had no response. I'm concerned that your computer and my computer are not on speaking terms for some reason. Cheers Gary Quote
47heaven Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Posted July 3, 2007 Darin, Did you get my reply re: ash trays as I have had no response. I'm concerned that your computer and my computer are not on speaking terms for some reason.Cheers Gary Yeah, Gary. I got it. I'll be in touch with you shortly. Thanks! Darin Quote
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