NiftyFifty Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 You changed your head gasket? Did you clean out the coolant that was in the block before you started or tried starting it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 We can help you with this but we need to know what you have done to it and see some good photos of the details as they are now. Here are a few questions. Have you read through a manual for one of these trucks? If not you really should. What all has been done to the engine? Did you drop the oil pan? Has the head been off? Have you done a compression check? Do you have a working oil pressure gauge? Did you remove and examine the oil pressure relief valve? Did it sit for a long time with no oil in it? Did you ever pressure test the cooling system? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 We can help you with this but we need to know what you have done to it and see some good photos of the details as they are now. Here are a few questions. Have you read through a manual for one of these trucks? If not you really should. What all has been done to the engine? Did you drop the oil pan? Has the head been off? Have you done a compression check? Do you have a working oil pressure gauge? Did you remove and examine the oil pressure relief valve? Did it sit for a long time with no oil in it? Did you ever pressure test the cooling system? Jeff okay so the truck was parked in running condition, it held water and everything, radiator was full of water when i got and it sat in my garage for a year and there wasnt any leaks or anything. so i drained the water out and everything to have the radiator cleaned out. so that was the last time the cooling system had water in it since then i have changed oil and no water has been through the cooling system so it cant be a cracked block. it did sit outside for 2 or three years so im wondering if maybe water didnt seep in through the oil pan breather next to the distributor. and the only part thats been removed was the head. but it was put back on that night so im thinking rain just got in somewhere because the engine was exposed to the elements for quite some time. but the oiling problem i have no clue becuase i havent gotten the engine to run more than 15 seconds or so. so im wondering if it just hasnt gotten warm enough to pump oil to that filter i dont know if i have oil pressure too but when i checked the valves they look lubed up and there these little reservoir type things between them that have fresh oil so i feel like its pumping oil it just hasnt had a chance to run it to the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 It is possible that rain water is the culprit. At the very least you need to drain the oil out. If it were me I would drop the oil pan to inspect and give it a good cleaning. Based on that one photo there is no telling what you will find if you have not had it off. To test to see if you are getting oil pressure you do not need to run the engine. You can either disconnect the oil pressure gauge line under the hood or remove the line to the oil filter cannister. Put a clear plastic bottle over it and crank the engine over with the ignition off. You should get a stream of oil fairly quickly. If not you have either lost prime on the oil pump....or have a blocked pick up screen.....or some other blockage. A good series of photos of the engine bay as it is right now would be very useful to those of us who want to help you make progress. Also have you spent any time reading the manual for this truck? I am old school and prefer a hard copy.....but it can be accessed on line. Either way it has some invaluable information in it and you would do well to familiarize yourself with the contents. Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 It is possible that rain water is the culprit. At the very least you need to drain the oil out. If it were me I would drop the oil pan to inspect and give it a good cleaning. Based on that one photo there is no telling what you will find if you have not had it off. To test to see if you are getting oil pressure you do not need to run the engine. You can either disconnect the oil pressure gauge line under the hood or remove the line to the oil filter cannister. Put a clear plastic bottle over it and crank the engine over with the ignition off. You should get a stream of oil fairly quickly. If not you have either lost prime on the oil pump....or have a blocked pick up screen.....or some other blockage. A good series of photos of the engine bay as it is right now would be very useful to those of us who want to help you make progress. Also have you spent any time reading the manual for this truck? I am old school and prefer a hard copy.....but it can be accessed on line. Either way it has some invaluable information in it and you would do well to familiarize yourself with the contents. Jeff well heres a pick of my engine currently ive pulled the head off to repaint it my head is painted flat black and my engine block is going to be a burnt copper orange. other things will be black powdercoated and then i have some that are gettting chromed by a friend. but here is the only and most recent pic i have of it taken last weekend... lot cleaner huh? thats what 2 years of hand brushing and screwdriver scraping gets you.. engine still had original paint!!! engine.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 OK so you have had the head off. What did the bores look like and have you done a compression test? Did you ever drop the oil pan? Do you have a complete gasket set ? There are lots of small details involved in putting one of these engines back into service. Trying to get a handle on what has been addressed and what has not......hence the questions. When you have time take some detail pictures from both sides so we can see plumbing etc.. Have you had a look through the manual? Knowledge and understanding is the most powerful tool you can have at your disposal. Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 OK so you have had the head off. What did the bores look like and have you done a compression test? Did you ever drop the oil pan? Do you have a complete gasket set ? There are lots of small details involved in putting one of these engines back into service. Trying to get a handle on what has been addressed and what has not......hence the questions. When you have time take some detail pictures from both sides so we can see plumbing etc.. Have you had a look through the manual? Knowledge and understanding is the most powerful tool you can have at your disposal. Jeff okay ill have to take some pics this weekend and yes i have read the whole manual like a dozen times. and i compression tested the engine and all the cylinders had within 5psi of eachother. so that was good and ive rebuilt engines before ive just never done this exact engine before. and no i didnt drop the oil pan i will if i change the oil and dont get it to pump this weekend. im trying to avoid taking off as many parts as possible because then i have to go and hunt down the gaskets and since i have no credit card its kinda hard to order parts. haha but yeah everything to makethis engine run is there and great the truck only had like 20< miles its just double checking everything to maker sure im not going to blow my engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Good your compression check came out within 5# but what exactly were the readings? Did you drain all the water from the block prior to removing the head? Draining the radiator does not drain the engine block. There is a petcock near the distributor that drains the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) All right. We definitely want to help you. All the questions and answers help us understand where you are at.. Using this site and all the help here should make things a bit easier for you. If you have a decent auto parts store in your area you may be able to get them to order stuff for you and just pay cash. Napa has some of the stuff in stock. I would suggest a complete gasket set from Best or Felpro. By the time you are done you will understand why. Again if it were me I would drop the oil pan. If not when you drain the oil .....you could at least put some kerosene in the sump and drain it out after it has had some time to soak. Do not turn the engine over just use the kerosene as aid to flush the pan. And you should not attempt to start the engine until you have proven that you have good oil circulation in the engine. There could be a number of things affecting this and you don't want to cause any unnecessary damage. Jeff And don't forget we are on your side. .I for one really want to see you succeed. Edited March 27, 2015 by Jeff Balazs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 changed the oil today and checked everything and it all checked out. i put the air cleaner on it choked it..didn't even pump the gas once. turned the key and bam purin like a kitty. She sounded so good! tomorrow I'm going to fill the radiator with water and let it run for a few minutes maybe take it for a little drive. I hope everything works because if i can get it to drive its off to get the brakes fixed next week and then im going to put all the panels back on it and make it a truck again and then i sowed my own seat cover and shaping my own foam and then attaching it and there we go 1950 dodge truck for 800$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 You have two threads going and I'm not sure you've solved your oil issues, I wouldn't run it at all unless that's been solved...could make all your hard work come to a big bad halt in a hurry! What was your compression reading? If their all at 40-45psi then that's not a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 You have two threads going and I'm not sure you've solved your oil issues, I wouldn't run it at all unless that's been solved...could make all your hard work come to a big bad halt in a hurry! What was your compression reading? If their all at 40-45psi then that's not a good thing. they were all around 70-75 psi if i remember rite. and im pulling the oil pump rite now to see if their is any problems. im hoping there isnt any and i can just re prime the pump and test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 As you have read the whole manual like a dozen times I assume you read the section on oil pump service and correct oil pump indexing. Did you do both a wet and dry compression test? 70-75 PSI indicates a not so healthy engine. What kind of compression gauge did you use? Screw in or hand held? If you used a screw in I hope you did not use the long probe as it will bend valves when you crank the engine with the starter. There are a lot of folks on this forum trying to help you. However the communication needs to be 2 way. When someone asks you a question answer it. The more information you provide the better answers you will get to your questions. The small details are important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 i used one that fit in the spark plug hole and didn't go any deeper in the engine than the bottom of the spark plug. the engine has great compression i can feel it. i don't have a pressure gauge with me and i tested it about 2 years ago. im trying to give all the info i can, but like i said some stuff i just don't know. i took out my oil pump and i have checked it it pumps oil strong so i put my finger in the oil drain hole and there is a lot of built up old thick oil on the inside surface of the pan. i think if i drop the pan and pull out the sump and clean it it will work because i have pressure from the oil pump its just not picking up any oil. im giving all the info i can. i really wanna see this thing run and run healthy i know engines because ive built chevy engines i just don't know the small details and troubleshooting on this engine. its got good compression and strait valves the gaps are all good and so are the clearances its a solid engine the only problem with it at the moment is the oil system and i think its just clogged and needs to be filtered and changed till it clears out and i get nice clean oil through it. is there any way to clean the oil valleys and little cavities in the engine? i thought blowing it out with air but i don't know is there a chemical i can pressurize through the system to clean it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I see several unanswered questions on this page alone. I did not go all the way back to the beginning of the thread. Also I am not sure why another thread was started on the issues with this engine. Perhaps you should contact a moderator and have the threads combined so all the eggs are in one basket. Makes things easier to track. How did you clean all those shiverlay engines you built? A dirty engine is a dirty engine regardless of the manufacture. I have never mastered the art of feel to determine good compression. I use a compression gauge, record the readings, and read the spark plugs at the same time. Just good shop practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 so ive taken the oil pump out and it pumps oil my oil pressure guage says i have 40psi just cranking the engine over. and well ive never had an engine this gummed up its clean in the cylinders and intake but dirty in the oil pan. so i have oil pressure good oil pressure i just think maybe the engine doesnt pump oil to the filter until its decently warm? everything that pumps the oil on this truck works except my filter isnt getting oil to it so i know its pumping to the engine just not the filter. and i dont know how to read spark plugs... ive never been taught how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 As mentioned by others these engines are notorious for sludge build up. FWIW I never had any sludge in any of my chevys and the last one had 568,000 miles on it when I sold it. It is a very real proposition in one of these engines though especially one that has not been run in years. It could be that there is some sort of blockage in either the line into or out of the oil filter cannister. You could remove these to make certain they are clear and turn the engine over to "burp" some oil at the connection points. With the filter oil capacity is 6 quarts. The oil pump takes a special square section seal at the end cap......hopefully you had one of those. At some point you should consider dropping the oil pan. It will blow your mind when you see the sludge deposits if it has never been off and cleaned. With it off and a large drip pan below you can remove the valve inspection covers and flush and clean that area of sludge and debris. I have done this with my engine and I am still getting crud out of the oiling system. Hope this helps, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 i ordered the gasket for the oil pan ill either drop it tomorrow or friday night. and thank you ill have to do that and see if i get oil coming out of there. what do you know about tuning one of these? is there only one screw to adjust the fuel flow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Tuning is all dependant on a warmed up engine that has run to operating temps and in your case it's going to take awhile to get the carbon blown out and everything figured out. If the carb is rebuilt, the float level is crucial, then the idle air screw, and the throttle plate screw which sets your idle speed. I'm curious what your going to find with a hot compression, 75 dead cold isn't great and most likley may drop another 5+ when warm, but could also go the other way if the rings are a bit stuck. You may also have a lot of smoking, that also effects the tuning if it's fouling the plugs, you may need to run a higher idle to keep it running....that's where I was with my original engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 From my own experience getting one of these engines tuned that has set a while can take several steps. You won't be able to do too much until you know that the oiling is OK and the cooling system is functional. There are many items that affect how well one of these will run. Even compression is certainly a big factor. Sticky valves or valves that are not seating well play into this as well. It may take a fair amount of running time to know just where you stand with all this. Once you have this engine so that it will run for an extended period of time you can begin to assess things. Some of the key things to watch in this period is water temperature and oil pressure. Also try to get it running as lean as possible to avoid oil dilution and plug fouling. Make certain the timing is correct and if you have a vacuum gauge hook it up to help assess adjustments. I would suggest you use the search feature on this site and read up on different topics. There is a real wealth of knowlege here and you can benefit from the experience we have all been through. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 thank you guys and okay i really got it running this time to where it was responsive to the throttle and everything but now i have no spark..... list just keeps growing!! so it started reved up real fast and everything got it back to idle and shut it off. came back 5 min later and had no spark soo theres that. im going to order a 12v coil, points and condenser tomorrow. im tired of it as soon as i fix one problem another pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 That's the problem when you try to run a vehicle that hasn't in many many years, and that was not stored correctly, but once you replace all the wear items, you should be on your way to a decent runner. Very few barn or field finds that get towed out and run perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ah yes...well.. ...you have chosen a project which has tested many of us.....and a good many of us have decades more experience than you. Bringing one of these old trucks back to life is no simple thing. Done right it is very rewarding but make no mistake there are challenges in it for all of us. In fact pretty much every one of us has had to learn or re learn some fairly hard lessons. If you don't believe me read through a bunch of the older threads here. We have all been there. Hang in there man. Time to go watch the movie "the Rounders" Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 haha i need auto parts stores who arent full of fat ricer teenage mechanics i called all the autopart stores and get the usual "yeah we got it come on down" but get in there and a kid whos never touched a piece of american metal with a wrench is sitting there and has no clue if anything willwork so i had to buy all the different ones and 100$ later hopefully it will start!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950dodgefan Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 alright guys need help. engine had great spark literally saw it run today. so i bought brand new coil points and condenser. replaced the coil. the distributor has spark now like when i take a screw driver and i break the points and touch it down again it sparks. so theres obvious power going to the points and condenser... put i have no spark to my spark plugs? wires are brand new spark plugs all new less than 3 days old. new battery new coil.. everything is new why dont i have any spark i did 4 hours ago now i have nothing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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