Gas Prices......Are They That High?

[Norm's Coupe]

QUOTE FROM SIGNATURE OF PAT S

Ever wonder about those people who spend $2 apiece on those little bottles of Evian water?

END QUOTE.

Just about everyone has been complaining about gas prices the past couple of years, including me. However, if you spend $2.00 for a 16 oz. bottle of water that translates into $16.00 per gallon, yet people pay that price for water and and think nothing of it. Yet those same people are the first to complain about the high profits the oil companies are making on gas.

Water is not the only example. You can also add up the price of Milk, beer or soda and come out with a higher or about the same as the price per gallon of gas. Yet the people who drink a lot of that never complain either.

So..........We should think about that next time we fill up at $3 to $3.50 per gallon. Is the gas price really that high when you compare it to water, etc.? However, no one complains when their salary goes up.

[Guest jtw3749c]

That's usually the problem. No one salary goes up. It's cut, cut ,cut. Layoff's etc. Course, then what do we expect when everything is going to China.

[1just4don]

years ago when bottled water first became popular,,,I thought that was the goofiest gimic in the world. NOBODY would buy THAT stuff,,,why pay that much for water. And people claim it tastes better.

Take two bottles, blindfold a person who says that, take one new bottle and one that was out of a unchlorinated tap and put in frig overnight. bet they cant tell which is which, unless you have real BAD water. tap water has a bad rap,,,and its the safest water known to man.

I was camping last year,,,a guy said they take the water right out of this spring creek to bottle and sell. I sure didnt think that creek water was clean enough,,,lots of 'floaties' and fish in there. I will take well water any day!!

[Guest 50Plymouth]

The problem is my family doesn't drink a whole gallon of milk in a single day, but we potentially go through many gallons of gas in a day. Per unit cost is irrelevant apart from average "necessary" consumption per time unit. A gallon milk lasts almost a week, a gallon of gas lasts about 40minutes driving for us. Living where I do, it is impossible to go the store without consuming more than a gallon per trip because of distance to (closest real) town. Maybe thats my problem for living further away. If not gas for the car, then feed for the horse right? I don't like the cost rise but, I won't blame it. Even living on 1/3 of what my family used to we live in luxury compared to the rest of the worlds majority.

Not all salaries go up. In my "field" and others, raises are hardly guaranteed and when they do occur they often are be less than yearly inflation which means technically earning less per year. I've experienced 1% raises before even with good reviews.

If the gas prices aren't high, then they are at least higher. When my wife and I lived and worked amongst the auto industry we'd think nothing much of this price direction, but we're operating off a dramatically different income bracket now (by choice). For those earning such that they qualify for certain assistances (we're not talking abusers and non-working here) it is at least significant if not serious.

My rant: The U.S. standard of living is not something guaranteed. Period. The historical Romans (citizens, not slaves or free peasants) had a decent middle\upper class rising, but it sure didn't last! The only way to sustain entire generation(s) living in a relative luxury is for someone else to be taken advantage of pretty seriously. The pendulum may swing such that certain Eastern nations get a chance at a rising middle class. Mindless rant Done

As a pastor I get people looking for gas money, utilities whatever, and too often it is indeed due to outright bad management and lack of education or concern in areas of adult life skills. I.E, cable and internet but can't afford heating gas. Yes, thats silly - but however, even for such folks the gas money isa big issue and they talk about it because they have not/maybe will not planned to allow for it and perhaps give up something or make other changes, so they are upset because "x" can't be gotten till later. Such blame should not be placed on the gas price of course, but due to bad management; it does hinder the ability to meet the real needs unfortunately for some - since the last check was badly used, and they didn't consider gas- now they can't afford bread. Granted, such person may be in that boat even if items do not raise in cost, but when it does raise it is a real change, just not one that should cause so much problem. For many others like those on this forum, they learn to update the budget and cut down in another area to compensate.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

..

I will take well water any day!!

I would tend to agree, but not all well water is so great. I used to run water through those brita filters - now I just drink whatever, wherever, however it smells . Be it wells or city or whatever, the rare accidents happen, or people lie or forget to review\test. Unfortunately our town was involved in a scam where someone installed improper sewage system, ran off with money, so now costing many millions to fix it. Every spring and fall equinox there is serious sewage overrun in the local yucky pool. Granted our town well water is okay (at least I think )

[Norm's Coupe]

Well when you compare the price per gallon of gas and the wages of the 50's to today's price per gallon vs wages, gas is still a bargain.

I think the average wage of a worker back in the early to mid 50's was only about $1.25 to $1.50 per hour in factories. Gas was about 20 cents per gallon. Even for something as simple as having your grass cut has risen that much too. As kids back in the 50's my cousin and I had regular customers that we cut their lawns. We charged between $1.25 to $1.75 per lawn, averaging about 10,000 sq. ft. per lawn. That was two of us working on one lawn with an old 18 or 20 inch push type power mower. Today, you pay one person about $30 or $40 to cut the same size lawn with a riding mower. Today, the average factory wage is between $12 and $20 per hour. So..................even though you may not think wages have gone up, they have out paced the price of a gallon of gas since then.

I've said it before and say it again. Today, people just choose to live too far from their place of employment. By doing so, it raises the demand and price for gas and also greatly increases their cost to get back and forth to work. I know people living 40 to 60 miles (one way) from their work. Just think of all the money and gas they would save by simply moving to within 10 to 20 miles of their work, not to count their commute time. Would also save a lot of tax dollars on road repairs.

NOTE: The prices and wages are from the Louisville, KY area back in the 50's. Of course depending on where you lived then, the prices and wages would be different. However, the percentage spread would be about the same. The wage of about $1.50 to $2.00 per hour was based on wages paid by places like Ford Motor line workers for workers just starting with the company. Today, that wage is up to about $30 to $40 or more with benefits included. So, wages have gone up as well, even if some have been cut a little.

[James_Douglas]

In my odd way I agree with you in many respects. See my rant in an thread a few weeks back as it ties in direct to this one.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?p=26872#post26872

Also, gas prices have just started to come back up, past 1950's prices, in the last 3 years when adjusted for inflation (wages).

Best, James

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Such Charts don't lie. There are generations like myself however who never lived under such former economy and so "took for granted" former prices relative to their income. So to them its a big deal because they have less overall data. When I started driving (I'm 25 now) I remember first paying $1.10 often sometimes less. So in < 8 years my gas went up to 3 times the amount. Still, I'm not in Europe

In answering the question about the high price of gas you've got to determine the field of time. If it goes back many decades that's very different than say '97-'07 as the chart shows.

[Don Coatney]

I've said it before and say it again. Today' date=' people just choose to live too far from their place of employment. [/quote']

Norm;

I believe you spent a good portion of your life working as an "on the road" traveling salesman even overseeing a fleet of cars for other salesmen. Perhaps you should have worked at the corner widget factory that was close to home. In todays world there are folks who live in New York and work in California commuting every week. My work demands that I travel sometimes great distances very similar to the traveling salesman. Working close to home is no longer an option for lots of folks.

Now let the traveling salesman jokes began.

[Don Coatney]

years ago when bottled water first became popular,,,I thought that was the goofiest gimic in the world. NOBODY would buy THAT stuff,,,why pay that much for water. And people claim it tastes better.

Take two bottles, blindfold a person who says that, take one new bottle and one that was out of a unchlorinated tap and put in frig overnight. bet they cant tell which is which, unless you have real BAD water. tap water has a bad rap,,,and its the safest water known to man.

I was camping last year,,,a guy said they take the water right out of this spring creek to bottle and sell. I sure didnt think that creek water was clean enough,,,lots of 'floaties' and fish in there. I will take well water any day!!

1just4Don;

As one who has spent time working in the bottled water industry I will offer some insight. Unless bottled water is labeled as "spring" water it comes from the tap, or the well, or the river, or the reservoir, or the lake, or any other acceptable source. This water is filtered through a charcoal filter, a reverse osmosis system, an ozone injecting system, a heat treatment system, any combination of the above mentioned, or an other "purification" system, or nothing, before it goes in a bottle. The bottle may be flushed with (H2O2) hydrogen peroxide or possibly a heat treatment system, or possibly nothing to kill any bugs in the bottle and then is bottled. Spring water does come from a spring for legal labeling issues but it is basically treated the same. Bottom line is bottled water is considered safe same as most tap water (New Orleans may or may not be an exception) is. Most well water is safe but there can be exceptions. Chlorinating of water is what separates the United States from Mexico and chlorinating is a good thing even though I can smell it in the water when I shower.

[James_Douglas]

I can appreciate your comment. As you can see in 1979 gas started up in a big way. I was in my first year at collage and the trip from home to school got costly very fast. I did not see relative price reduction until after I was out of collage.

That said, relative to wages, we were paying more for gas between 1979 and 1982 than we do now (up to 2006). The spike of the last 12 months may have gotten the adjusted price back up to the 1981 peak. I have not checked it recently however.

James

[Norm's Coupe]

Norm;

I believe you spent a good portion of your life working as an "on the road" traveling salesman even overseeing a fleet of cars for other salesmen. Perhaps you should have worked at the corner widget factory that was close to home. In todays world there are folks who live in New York and work in California commuting every week. My work demands that I travel sometimes great distances very similar to the traveling salesman. Working close to home is no longer an option for lots of folks.

Now let the traveling salesman jokes began.

Don,

You are correct. However, the sales people didn't have to worry about the price of gas and neither did I as the company paid the bill. Even for personal gas (except that used while on vacation) until the IRS changed the tax rules in the mid to late 70's. As a point of interest though, when we hired a new salesman we always looked at how far he lived from the district office he would be based in. The offices were all based in major cities, toward the center of that city. If the applicant lived more than about 20 miles away, it was a big strike against him and he rarely, if ever got hired. That was one of those hidden type employment policy requirements. None of the salesmen had a territory that would take them more than about 150 to 200 miles from their district office, and they were only expected to spend about 2 nights a month out of town overnight. The average salesman only put about 18,000 to 25,000 miles a year on their company cars, including personal mileage. Of course I put more on traveling between districts from Kansas to Ohio and Illinois to the Canadian border. However, the last five or six years I was there I only put about 11,000 miles on the car a year as I started flying more and renting cars.

As an example Don, we had 4 salesmen in the Nashville district office. None of those people had a territory that took them out of Tennessee.

It's different for consultants, sales and service people who have to travel around the country. When I said people should live close to their work, I was talking about the average person who goes to the same location and never has to travel on the job. That said, the person traveling a lot should still live fairly close to their base office.

For 50Plymouth,

Ok, lets take it from the 90's to today. As an example of prices compared to gas, look at the cost of homes. If you compare the price of my house back in the early 90's to today. Today my house (along with everyone else's) is worth a little over 3 times what it was worth in the early 90's. Some homes have gone up even more. So........$3.00 per gallon today compared to your $1.10 per gallon back then is about the same percentage of inflation, making gas about the same price in today's dollars.

And guys, I'm not saying I enjoy paying $3.00 plus per gallon either. Just saying when you look at inflation, it isn't any higher than anything else today.

I can also remember paying only about $7.00 a pair for GOOD all leather dress shoes in the early 60's. Today that same pair of shoes is over $100. The list is endless if you remember. If too young to remember, if you do the research you'll see the same things.

[James_Douglas]

Norm,

My Desoto was priced at $2283 in October 1947. The gurus of inflation say that the inflation rate from 10-1947 to 1-2007 is 780.7%

So, my Desoto in today s dollars would cost $20,106.38.

Makes you wonder....

James

[Norm's Coupe]

Norm,

My Desoto was priced at $2283 in October 1947. The gurus of inflation say that the inflation rate from 10-1947 to 1-2007 is 780.7%

So, my Desoto in today s dollars would cost $20,106.38.

Makes you wonder....

James

James,

Just taking inflation into consideration that could be right. However, I really think if they were still building DeSoto's today they would be priced about the same as the Chrysler and cost more than $20,000. Would probably be more like $30,000 to $40,000.

[james curl]

Norm, it would be nice to live close to work but in Austin, Texas $240,000 will buy you a 700 square foot two bed room one bath house built in the late thirties with a lot so small there is no room for a drive way and garage on either side of the house. The house will be at least four miles from downtown where I used to work before retiring. The same house within one mile will cost you upwards of $500,000. You have to make a very good salary to afford to live with in fifteen miles of downtown.

[Young Ed]

I don't think comparing a house to a gallon of gas is quite the same thing. Yes they both may have increased the same. But you can sell that house and get the money back. And you only have to purchase 1 at a time.

I agree its not so much the increase as the unexpected rate of increase. When I started driving 10 years ago this summer gas was 89.9. At the time I was making 6.00 an hour and never had trouble paying for gas. As a normal teenager we spent many many nights just driving around. Now I have a decent job at HQ for that same company. Granted I do have a house to support now but I really have to watch my recreational driving. Also canceled my trip to Tulsa.

[Norm's Coupe]

Norm, it would be nice to live close to work but in Austin, Texas $240,000 will buy you a 700 square foot two bed room one bath house built in the late thirties with a lot so small there is no room for a drive way and garage on either side of the house. The house will be at least four miles from downtown where I used to work before retiring. The same house within one mile will cost you upwards of $500,000. You have to make a very good salary to afford to live with in fifteen miles of downtown.

James it's getting like that here in Milwaukee too. Just a converted old warehouse or industrial building into condo's will cost you those prices. That's near downtown though, not the center of the city. I was talking more about the city/county borders which include suburbs in the county. So, maybe I should have worded that other post differently.

[DutchEdwin]

Think of it lioke this, everything made in china has to be transported to the US and EU, costing fuel. Everything made in China is produces with energy, has the same price it needs for it's energy as in the US and EU. So if the oil price rises, the goods price will have to rise.

the difference to our prices will drop and it is less economical. So the higher the oil price, the more goods will not be "made in China".

Why complain?