Front Fender Attachment?

[Dennis_MN]

Saturday was my first showing and I was the only pilothouse but I did encounter several folks who said they were restoring one. I had two question me about the attachment of the front fender. Both said they had two carriage bolts on the upper rear part of the front fender to attach it to the mounting bracket. Those were in addition to the smaller phillips head screw at the bottom. They said their fender was quite rusty at this attachment point and what did I do to eliminate it.

I never did have external bolts at the top rear, only the lower one.

My fender was attached to a bracket using two bolts from under the bracket. They were a bugger to get out however.

I've since looked at pictures in Don Bunns book and sure enough, there are bolts on the outside. When did they change? And are my fenders really 1949? These questions came up after Don left.

I'll take a better picture tomorrow.

[grey beard]

Dennis,

The two "carriage bolt" heads of which you speak are really rivets. This feature was used on all Pilothouse cabs until 1954, if I am correct. I wish these things WERE carriage bolts, because they would be easy to remove and to repair body/rust repair in the area. Unfortunately they are factory rivets that hold the fender skin to a welded bracket. As you can imagine, some major surgery would be involved in getting this stuff apart.

Inside the fender, surrounding these rivet heads is a reinforcement plate that supports a fender bracket - a perfect recipe for moisture to get in and eventually swell things up. Being the weakest link, the fender skin is what always goes first. Finding an original Pilothouse with unswollen sheet metal in this area is a rarity - almost unheard of in eastern states and rare anywhere.

I am currently working on my own Pilothouse nose and fenders. I plan to grind the inside rivet heads off, punch them out and do the small amount of repair in the area, then replace them with carriage bolts. Of course the problem is that if there is any filler naterial in the area, sucking up the bolts will likely crack the stuff. This may be the main reason whiy the area gets modified by so many restorers.

This area is a "prima facie" tell-tale spot for determining rust on these cabs. Even in Montana, where things rust very little, my son has three Pilothouse trucks with swollen/rusted material on the fenders near these rivet heads. If your truck is missing this feature, removing the fender will reveal that someone has welded or otherwise modified the fender bracket to get rid of the rivets.

Wonder how other restorers on this forum have handled this dilemma . . . Sure would be nice to hear what others think or have done with this problem area. JMHO

[Bob_Koch]

I had rust in this area and sure enough, the only way I could get in to repair it was to drill and grind out the rivets. I found some very nice looking chrome carriage bolts that will fit nicely once I repaint the fenders. I welded the metal from the back and don't think the fender needs such large bolts. So when I do install them, I'll just tighten them lightly so I don't crack the body filler.

By the way - great lookin truck

[Merle Coggins]

Yup, same thing here. I ground off the rivets from the inside and drove them out. Then you have to find all the spot welds that hold the inner plate to the fender and drill them out. I then made up new support plates, but before reassembly I cleaned up the metal on the inside of the fender and coated it with POR15. I then used liberal amounts of POR15 seam sealer paste between the fender and support plate and reassembled that area with carriage bolts. Once the seam sealer set up, and the plate was bonded fairly well to the fender, I removed the bolts and smoothed up the outer surface with body filler, then reinstalled the bolts. So far no cracks.

I'm curious as to what is the correct hardware for the lower rear bolt? My front clip was held on with bailing wire and misc. mismatched hardware when I got the truck. Someone got a photo of this area on a complete truck?

Merle

[Young Ed]

Here's a nice before picture for you guys

[Merle Coggins]

That's worse than mine were.

By the way, where's that truck? The lower grill bar looks to be in MUCH better condition than mine.

Merle

[Young Ed]

Haha Merle I just had a feeling someone was going to ask about that truck. It was at the local Upull yard and I'm sure its been long crushed. It was a year ago that I was there harvesting some stuff. Even though someone bent those cowl rods I still got the hood prop rods plus some heater parts. People were scavenging parts like mad so I imagine someone got that grill bar.

[Dennis_MN]

If I had known how the fenders were attached sooner I would have really paid attention to that area. I put my camera up there today and it looks like they ground off the heads of the rivets and brazed them in place, then did body puddy over it. If that area was rusty, they did a good job at covering it up. At some time in my trucks life, it suffered front end damage and perhaps the fenders were replaced and cleaned up at that time. I'm only speculating about front end damage because of the krinkles in the frame infront on the spring brackets and the fact that the front bumper was missing.

Dennis

[grey beard]

Merle,

That hottom rear fender corner is held on by one small 5/16-inch carriage bolt on each side. That's all!

[Dennis_MN]

I used the same phillips head bolt that was in there. Looks like I need to touch up the paint a tad as I had to use a nut breaker to get it off.

Dennis

[Jim Shepard]

The only 'carriage' bolts (reallu rivets) I found on mine were the front fenders. My body guy cut 'em off and replaced them with new carriage bolts he welded in place.

[Ken_Hart]

my original fenders has the standard rust thou one was really bad and had most of the front lip gone. I found two very nice fenders on the West Coast in the desert and they are cherry.. But I been thinking about removing the rivet heads and go flush to prevent future problems.. since i am not going 100% stock that will not bother me.. (going to fill the lower one also).. have thought about modifying the rear edge by the cab where the foam goes to fill some of the gap with metal.. (but these ideas are not in concrete).. so much other things to do first

[Mario Loya B1B]

Ken,

I was just admiring your photos of the woodie. Is this what the original fenders on the woodie looked like?

[Ken_Hart]

yes, that is my original fenders. one was worse then it showed. The front lip that bolts to the front grill pan (not sure what to call it) was rusted all the down the front edge (and rear edge by the door)... way more work to save then it was worth.. I did save one fender that only had rust around the rivets.. I will try to save it later on...