47 P15 Stuck Valves

[JohnTeee]

After a busy couple of weeks, I'm back to Special D. Despite my earlier panic and confusion about the engine, you guys hit it on the head with stuck valves. I've finally got my intake and exhaust headers off and am trying to get the valves freed up. I was lucky with almost all of the bolts. One bolt had threads screwed up with the nut coming off (galled?) and I'm going to have to replace that. Most had 'dry rust' on the threads and squeaked coming out, but nothing totally frozen. Bolt on the tail end of the exhaust header was apparently broken in the past and there was just one bolt in place. Interesting. There were also only three bolts in the heat riser, as apparently one was broken off in there. I'll have to see if I can Easy Out those. Several questions . . .

The valve access panel inside the right fender well . . .

Is this thing supposed to slide out relatively easily? It seems to have a hole in the upper/forward corner of the panel, that a bolt goes through. The back side of the bolt WOULD be accessible, in a car without a heater. Without a slot there, I have not been able to get it out. So it's 'rolled' forward, toward the bumper.

The stuck valves . . .

Is it common/expected that it's the INTAKE valves that are the ones that are stuck?

Here's #6, #5, & #4

And here's #3, #2 & #1

I'm spraying "PB Penetrating Catalyst" on the the upper end of the valves/guides in hope of freeing them. Is there any tapping or prying I can do on the lower end of the valve stems? I squirted Marvel Mystery Oil in the plug holes last Saturday and ran it through several revolutions; most of that seems to have ended up in the intake header.

Header bolts . . .

How do you back one of those out of the block to replace it? Vice grips and crank on it?

Heat riser is frozen and I'm trying to work on that while I'm at it. More penetrating oil. I've been alternating PB, Marvel and some scraping and tapping. Spring is good. Little 'bell shaped' washer that keeps it from rotating on the shaft is a goner. Have to see what I can fabricate.

Thanks again for the help.

Cheers!

John

[greg g]

You can try to attack them from the bottom, some times you can influence them by using a large screw driver os a chisel to act as a wedge between coils of the springs, but the fool proof way is to pull the head and whack em with a rubber mallet, a dead blow hammer, or a block of wood and a regular hammer.

It just depends where the cam stops as to which valves will be stuck.

When I did mine, I just played whack a mole, rotated the engine with the starter, and whacked again till they were all moving freely.

[48mirage]

Studs for the Header: Double nut them then try to screw them out by putting your wrench on the inside nut. You might have to tighten the 2 nuts against each other to keep both from turning.

[JohnTeee]

Studs for the Header: Double nut them then try to screw them out by putting your wrench on the inside nut. You might have to tighten the 2 nuts against each other to keep both from turning.

Thanks 48mirage . . . I'll have to see if I can clean up the threads on the ends where the bolt and nut got galled. Right now I can thread anything on.

"Dear, I have to go buy another tool so I can work on the car . . ." <grin>

Cheers!

John

[Rusty O'Toole]

It is common for intake valves to freeze especially if someone left the air filter off. Dampness gets in and rusts whichever valves happen to be open.

Usually if you oil the stems and tap them down they free up, if they are real bad you may have to replace valves and guides.

[JohnTeee]

Thanks for the help guys. I've been repeating applications of PB Blaster and Gunk Liquid Wrench, with a little spring spreading in-between. Starting to look like I might be pulling the head. My son will be disappointed; he was hoping to cruise with his girlfriend before it got TOO cold. <grin>

Picture and question of the day . . .

With the headers off and looking in at the intake valves, should I be seeing valve guide sticking up? Will Whack-a-Mole push those back down? See picture below for what I'm seeing.

'Nother question . . .

Is the rear of the exhaust header hanging on the firewall during removal a common problem? I finally pried a little bit with a crow bar between the header and the firewall to get enough room to back it off the bolt.

Cheers!

John

[Rusty O'Toole]

If you don't have the head off try prying the stuck valves down with a screwdriver. It should not take much force, the spring should do most of the work. Usually they let go with a snap as soon as you pry a little.

If it is too hard to pry down it is really frozen and will probably have to be replaced.

PS yes the valve guide is supposed to stick up into the port like that.

[Don Coatney]

Go to the main web page supporting this forum and read everything in the "Technical Tips" section. Then report back on what you have learned about valve guides.

[JohnTeee]

Done said:

Go to the main web page supporting this forum and read everything in the "Technical Tips" section. Then report back on what you have learned about valve guides.

Well, I can now tell you that you should pay close attention to how the valve guides are re-installed, as: "exhaust valves install the counterbored ends upward" and "Intake guides are mounted counterbore down".

In the picture, is that the intake valve guide with the counterbore on the upside? The area adjacent to the red line in the picture below? Am I looking at a valve guide installed backwards?

What I can see of the exhaust valve guides looks like this:

Should I be seeing the tapered shoulder in this view?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Your guides are installed correctly. You see just the outer bevel on the top of the intake guide. On the exhaust guide there is a counter bore that you cannot see at the top inner part of the guide. The guides are actually the same part# for both the intake and exhaust-just flipped end for end for the correct placement and installation.

Bob

[FESTER60]

All I can say is good luck to you. I hope you can get everything free again. I had the same slippery slope with mine. I had the engine out already and removed the head. I tried it all. ATF, PB blaster, MMO, Deep creep, etc. Nothing worked. I dug in a little further and pulled the pan and some rod caps. Bearings were shot. Like I said a slippery slope for me. Bottom line: The old engine is on the scrapheap and a 318/904 is in the car now.

[JohnTeee]

Your guides are installed correctly.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I'm already farther into an engine than I've ever been and looking at pulling the head. I'll keep my fingers crossed that I don't have to install new valves. <grin>

Cheers!

John

[JohnTeee]

All I can say is good luck to you. I hope you can get everything free again. I had the same slippery slope with mine. I had the engine out already and removed the head. I tried it all. ATF, PB blaster, MMO, Deep creep, etc. Nothing worked. I dug in a little further and pulled the pan and some rod caps. Bearings were shot. Like I said a slippery slope for me. Bottom line: The old engine is on the scrapheap and a 318/904 is in the car now.

Yah, this is sure turning into a snowball 'get it back on the road project'. Lesson here? Momma's don't let your sons let their cars sit!

This will stay as stock as I can afford to. Maybe a nut, bolt, or other replacement here and there; whatever it takes to keep it on the road.

Cheers!

John

[jchalk1949]

I feel for you.

[Don Coatney]

John;

You could always jump in that helicopter and fly out west to steal your dads other vert:D

Edited October 24, 2011 by Don Coatney