Niel Hoback Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 You and your co-pilot have one fine looking ride. Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Posted March 22, 2011 I may have a problem here. I had thought the breaks would wear in and be okay but now I am not so sure. We took the car out again today and it seems to be getting worse. The noises were only coming from the passenger side but now they are coming from both sides. I am not real experienced with breaks and the noise comming from them is what I always thought happened when the shoes wore down. With the new shoes, I know it's not them. We took a couple videos of it in a parking lot. You can really hear it from the inside video. I am going to try adjusting them tomorrow to see if I can fix it but I thought I should post the vids here first and see what you guys think. Look close and you'll see Bess riding in the back seat. She really loves this car! Quote
Niel Hoback Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Thats nothing serious. The shoes are not the exact diameter as the drums and they are vibrating because they don't hit the drum equally along their entire surface. If it were mine, I would just drive it and turn the radio up. As the shoes wear in the noise will go away. Its the noise they used on radio shows to indicate a car coming to a stop. Adjust as you like, just don't get them too tight or they will overheat. Quote
greg g Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Did you sand the shoe surface before you put the drums back on??? I think I remember that as part of the process to help the new meterail bed in. What I would do is make a seried of medium speed semi panic stops and see if afte rthat the noise disapears. It may just be a case of the ridge of the new shoes not matching correctly withthe ridge in the drum from the braking surface to the area just outside were a ridge of metl gets built up and then it gets rusty. If they continue to make noise, pull the fronts and look at the contact pattern, and give them a bit of a hit with some medium grit sand paper especially the edges of the friction material. Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Posted March 22, 2011 I did not sand the shoes. When you say medium speed, are you saying like around 30mph? I will give it a try because right now it's kind of embarrassing. Quote
greg g Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 30 to 40. Doesn't need to be complet stops. then pull the fronts and look at the contact pattern. You shouldn't need to re adjust or re blead. Just pull the drums and take a look, and maybe hit them with some sand paper. Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 23, 2011 Author Report Posted March 23, 2011 Okay, I did about 6 hard stops from around 30-40mph. It seemed to work so I went to get gas. When I left the gas station they were groaning again. It's a little late here now so I will pull the drums tomorrow and see about some light sanding. Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 I am really stumped here. I pulled the drums and the pads look to be making contact all the way across and for the full length of the shoes. I think my adjustments are good. I took the drums to a local shop and had them turned after the owner of the shop told me that he was certain that was my problem. I took the car out yesterday and drove around town and it worked great. I figured all my troubles were over, until today. I took the car over to Hobby Lobby for some art supplies and, on the way back, the breaks started squealing again. I just don't know where to go from here. The only thing I can think of is that the return springs are a little weak. I really hope this isn't the case because it took everything I had just to get them back on. I could not imagine how hard it would be to install them if they were stiffer. I know I'm probably annoying you guys but does anybody have any more suggestions. My first car show is coming up in a few weeks and it is just embarssing right now. Thanks, Carl Quote
PatS.... Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Try a 10 mph backwards stop or two. You are dealing with brand new brakes and they'll take a bit to quiet down. If they still squeal in 200 miles then more investigation is needed. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Do your drums have the spring wrapped around the outer diameter of the drums? The springs purpose is to absorb brake noise. Most of the 12" drums on the Chryslers have the springs installed. If you don't have them they will be hard to find individually. They do work though! I always "Arc" the shoes to fit the drums. Your shoes will wear in to fit the drums and should quiet up. It will probably take a couple thousand miles though- my best guess. Bob Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 I have put well over 200 miles on it since I installed them. I will try the reverse stop to see if that does anything. Otherwise, I guess I will just have to live with but I sure hope it doesn't take 1,000 miles. Bob, I wondered what those springs were for. Mine still has them but they don't seem to be helping much. Just look at my videos of it before I turned the drums and you will see that they are very loud! I talked to several break shops around town and nobody had any idea who could arc my shoes. Everyone locally turns the drums. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 The shoes need to be in proper alignment and held tight to the backing plates. Hopefully the shoes are not dragging too much against the drums-the lining could get over heated and glazed. Did you use "lubriplate" or equivilent on all the brake shoe pivot/rub points? Old school back in the day- a machine called the "Brake Doc-Tor" was set up and adjusted to the drum diameter and then mounted on the spindle or axle and and pivoted around the shoes to Grind/Arc the shoes on the car to help promote correct shoe fitment to the drum and help eliminate noise problems. Brake noise is caused by high frequency vibrations of the pads or brake shoes. If the shoes don't fit right or are not held tight to the backing plate or possibly a bent backing plate ect, ect you will get noises. The type of brake lining could also be the cause of the squeal too! Just try to drive it out-noise should go away as the shoes wear in. I use the "Ammco" machine shown below on most all of the MoPar Lockheed brake jobs I do. If you were close I'd arc the shoes for you! Bob Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 The shoes need to be in proper alignment and held tight to the backing plates. Hopefully the shoes are not dragging too much against the drums-the lining could get over heated and glazed. Did you use "lubriplate" or equivilent on all the brake shoe pivot/rub points? Old school back in the day- a machine called the "Brake Doc-Tor" was set up and adjusted to the drum diameter and then mounted on the spindle or axle and and pivoted around the shoes to Grind/Arc the shoes on the car to help promote correct shoe fitment to the drum and help eliminate noise problems. Brake noise is caused by high frequency vibrations of the pads or brake shoes. If the shoes don't fit right or are not held tight to the backing plate or possibly a bent backing plate ect, ect you will get noises. The type of brake lining could also be the cause of the squeal too!Just try to drive it out-noise should go away as the shoes wear in. I use the "Ammco" machine shown below on most all of the MoPar Lockheed brake jobs I do. If you were close I'd arc the shoes for you! Bob I did not use anything when reinstalling them. That may be part of my problem. I will pull them next week and try again just to make sure. I don't have a lot of experience with break work espeacialy drum breaks. Of course, that's probably obvious by now. I sure wish there was a member here in Kansas that could look at it and give me some tips. Oh well, live and learn. By the time I'm done I will feel like an expert. Thanks, Carl Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Carl, These brakes are really good working brakes once they wear in, Good firm pedal and quiet too! The issue with these Lockheed fixed anchor brakes is just that- the shoes are each anchored to it's own anchor pin. All Modern cars with rear drums and some old cars use brake shoes that self center or float in the drums with only one top anchor pivot pin so they automatically fit up to the drums better and brake problems like you and others are experiencing are not such an issue. A couple things sometimes can help noise is to put a 1/4" bevel on the lining at the leading and trailing edge of the shoe lining. Also another trick is to install a rubber washer (like a small garden hose washer)on the cam adjustment pin just barely higher than the cam pin height. This can absorb shoe harmonics. Bob Quote
Al B. Bach Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 Give yourself a brake (pun intended) and get one of these to remove and install the springs. Yes, I know some guys can pop them off and install them blindfolded with just a couple of screwdrivers, but for the challenged like myself, this is an inexpensive tool that makes life easy. Don't need to go buy an SK, or a KD, cheap one works for as little as we should need them. The stupid thing is that I have that tool and just couldn't figure out how it worked. I feel like a real idiot now because I never even thought about covering the pads to protect them. Thanks for th pics! I will try taking the edge off the shoes to see if that helps. I think Gregg already suggested that but I forgot about it when I had the drums off for turning. I'll figure this out yet. Quote
greg g Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 You might try a bit of white grease or graphite ont he surfaces where the shoe and the retaining spring clip meet. Quote
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