Engine apart..... suggestions???

[Allan Faust]

Ok, as I mentioned yesterday, the engine is almost completely apart...took more pics, and you can see them here;

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v395/joker77/Engine%20-%20Drivetrain/

I haven't taken the valve train apart, since at the moment, my main concern is the 2 striated cylinders.... everything (to my untrained eye) else seems to be ok..... any suggestions on something you might see to replace/do??? I'm going to have the machine shop look at the cylinders to see if I need to replace the piston heads or if they can be ground down just enough to save those that I have..... ($$$$)

Allan

Also, while I'm at it... is this a plug into an oil gallery, or a water gallery, and is it truly removable or not recommended???? (you can see the timing cover marks to the right)

[Dodgefran]

This should be removed and wire brushed to get out the solids in the passage. These solids could come loose, clog the oiling system, and ruin your newly rebuilt engine. Good luck.

[Merle Coggins]

How bad are those scratches in the bores? Can you catch a fingernail in them? If they're not very deep a hone job may clean them up enough to go again. Otherwise you'll need to have it bored.

I recommend rebuilding/replacing the oil pump and water pumps as added security on a fresh engine. I would also consider new pistons. for $20-25 each it's not worth the gamble on those old crusty pistons. They may clean up OK, but why take a chance. However, if you have to bore the block, you'll be needing new pistons anyway. If you do take it to a machine shop, have them grind the valves and seats and check the valve guides for wear. It's also a good idea to check the head for flatness or have it shaved flat, and if you're doing that, you might as well do the same for the block deck. And you might as well have them install new wrist pin bushings in your con rods. They are difficult to install without the proper tooling, and usually need to be reamed to size.

Other than that, clean it thouroughly and reassemble with all new bearings and etc. I also recommend a new timing chain and sprokets. They may look OK, but are probably worn.

Happy rebuilding,

Merle

[Norm's Coupe]

Allan, I agree with Merle. As long as the engine is out and apart, I'd just put all new stuff in there. Merle said grind the valves, however, they don't cost that much either, so I'd replace those too. I replaced everything in my engine when I had it apart except the cam and crank, they were ok. Like he said, may as well put on a new timing gear and chain too. My timing gear and chain looked ok, but I tossed them anyway and put new in. That way when it goes back together, you have a new engine.

[Young Ed]

Norm and Merle you guys missed the part of trying to do this on a budget. You certainly dont need to replace the valves. My coupe engine still has its old valves, valve springs, and lifters and it runs great. I do have a .030 over bore all new bearings etc. The shop said the timing chain and gear were already new so those stayed.

[Norm's Coupe]

Ed,

Don't know about Merle, but I didn't miss the part about doing the job on a budget.

Let's say he keeps the valves and springs, even the pistons if they are ok. The engine is out now and apart. Now, if he gets it all back together, breaks a valve spring or two, or blows a piston, he may have to pull it and go through it again. Now, he's spending more money. I just feel it's best to spend the money up front the first time. It's usually cheaper to do it that way because you don't have the added expense and labor later. Doube work, equals double money. Same goes for the chain and sprocket. Yes, that can be done with the engine in the car. However, he still has to spend money for two gaskets if the old chain breaks, plus the added labor.

It's cheaper to do a complete engine once than to do half now, then the rest down the road. That's especially true if he breaks down someplace due to a broken timing chain, then needs to tow the car home just because he didn't spend the money now for a chain and sprocket.

[Allan Faust]

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for the response to date.... (I'm always winning to hear more...anything anyone can think of that might've been missed). The main thing that comes up, as Ed mentioned, is the budget... yes, I'd like a quick and dirty, get it back together as soon as possible job..... however, as Norm mentioned..... the budget just most likely doubled if I do it that way..... so I'm going to do it right..... rather not have a $2 valve spring cause a couple hundred worth of trouble.... its just that sometimes you don't want to hear what you already know to be right.... just had to hear it from a few people....

Allan

[Allan Faust]

As for a hone Merle, the machine shop will decide, but I don't know if it will have to go overbore or not.... essentially they are/were stuck oil rings, and according to my buddy, due to the gunk on the top of the pistons/valves, the engine had been pumpin oil for a while....

Fran... the oil galley will definitely be cleaned out (as well as the water passages, and a new water distribution tube).

Norm and Ed, I was more worried about replacing the bearings or not, but everyone agrees that they should be replaced, so.....

Allan

[Normspeed]

If the cylinders need to be bored, not honed, figure you will need to mostly take the motor apart for the bore work and take the block to a shop. At that point I would at least have the machine shop check the main and rod bearing clearance. Plus valve work if needed. So you're in for maybe pistons, rings, fresh rod and main bearings, valve parts, motor seals and gaskets. And it would be a shame to put a nasty old clutch back in, without at least having that flywheel ground and buying a fresh disk....

[Young Ed]

Allan you can get by with less but bearings etc are probably for the best. We did do a really cheap fix job on one of these and it runs good now. One piston was bad which was replaced with a used piston out of another flathead. That one and the other 5 were re-ringed with new rings we got for free from the machine shop. Some other customer had left them there on his old pistons after his engine needed to be bored. The shop guy came over and touched up the valves for us and away we go. Now I probably wouldn't take off across the country in that car but we do drive it around town a lot and it hasn't exploded yet.

[Merle Coggins]

If you can get away with just a hone job, and the pistons clean up OK, that could save you some on your budget. However, I caution you about cleaning methods on the pistons. Don't use a wire wheel or such to clean the crusty stuff. It can damage the ring lands, especially if the rings have been removed. There is a tool available for cleaning the ring grooves. It will keep everything true and square. Then you really should measure the ring to ring groove gap. There are specs for it in the manuals. However, the ring lands often get worn to a taper over time and they won't hold new rings properly. This is why I recommended new pistons.

I didn't miss the part about doing it on a budget. I was thinking the same way when I did mine. But as you get into it, that thought that Norm mentioned creeps in. "Just spend the money now and do it right. Otherwise I'll end up doing it again later"

Shop around, if you can, with local machine shops. The one that we often use here (at work) quoted me $100 to bore my block. I didn't ask them for any futher quotes. A friend told me about another shop. This guy has a farm tractor shop, but also does other engine work. I talked to him and found that he was very familure with flathead Mopars. He quoted me $80 to bore the block. I also had him shave the block deck and head, replace the valve guides and seats, and install wrist pin bushings. The total bill, which included new pistons and rings, was $735. Everyone I talked to about it said I got a good deal. Then, with around $600-700 in parts from other sources, I reassembled it and it runs great.

Another thing that's often overlooked is the cam bearings. Unless you have the proper tooling to replace these, I would recommend having the engine shop do it.

I understand trying to keep the budget as low as possible. So try to do as much as you can by your self. As you can see, half of my cost was from the machine shop.

Merle

[norrism1]

Allan, Don't forget the water distribution tube in the block. That has to be cleaned out or you can get overheating.