michael.warshaw Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 so i bought the crank and rods for my 218 and am making a 230, i also need a 230 flywheel, where cna i get one of those? i was told i need that becuase the bolt patterns are different then my 218?
Jim Yergin Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 Vintage Power Wagons has them. http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/01engine.pdf Jim Yergin
blueskies Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 Vintage Power Wagons has them.http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/01engine.pdf Jim Yergin Make sure the flywheel you get is drilled for the car clutch... My original was drilled for both the 9 1/4" and 10" clutches. The NOS 230 flywheel I bought from VPW was only drilled for the 10" and I had to have it drilled to work with my stock clutch. Also, there's more to it than the bolt pattern. The flange on the 230 crank is thicker, and the 230 flywheel has a machined recess in the face to accept the additional 3/16" thickness. You can use a 218 flywheel with four bolts, but it will sit back by this amount, and the starter will not fully engauge the ring gear. Pete
Don Coatney Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 so i bought the crank and rods for my 218 and am making a 230, i also need a 230 flywheel, where cna i get one of those? i was told i need that becuase the bolt patterns are different then my 218? How are they different?
LuckyDevil Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 This seems a little extreme for a person like Mike that once made a post about which direction the wiper knob was supposed to face? http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=18318 Whatever?
jd52cranbrook Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 How are they different? If I remember right, Bolts for flywheel to crank go in from opposite direction than a 218, and I think the offset MAY be a bit different in that area. I do remember I had to do nothing for the starter to match though. I doubt if VPW will supply holes drilled for a different pressure plate set up. I had to have mine drilled for the 10 inch clutch PP, no biggie.
David Strieb Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 This seems a little extreme for a person like Mike that once made a post about which direction the wiper knob was supposed to face?http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=18318 Whatever? seems like a legitimate question to me. Sharing information is what this forum is about isn't it?....or is it about who asks the question as to what kind of answer they recieve? There's a great tool for posting replies, it's as simple as don't reply.
Jim Yergin Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 Even though I did not use a flywheel from Vintage Power Wagons I did go with a ten inch clutch. My flywheel had holes for both sizes. Not hard to find the ten inch pressure plate and clutch disc (mine came from Len Dawson) and then no need to drill new holes. Jim Yergin
wayfarer Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 Flywheels show up with 4, 6 or 8 bolts, all on the same bolt circle. If you want to continue using the clipped head bolts then any additional holes must be accurate in location as well as diameter. If you change to cap screws then you must make sure that the flywheel does not have a shoulder against which the clipped head bolt normally rests. If the shoulder exists and you change to cap screws then either remove the shoulder in a lathe or use a counter-bore. Also, if you change to cap screws, the location and diameter of the bolt holes does not need the same accuracy as if using oem fasteners. As mentioned, the 230 has a thicker flange than the 218 has. If the 'new' flywheel is from a 230 there are no issues. As mentioned, if the new wheel is from a 218 then the flywheel will move a bit away from the starter. Some flywheels have very wide ring gears (up to ½") and the starter interface will not be affected as much as with the wheels having a skinny ring gear. As for clutch, you can use a larger pressure plate with a somewhat smaller disc as long as the pp fits inside the bell and has the proper style finger for the throwout bearing, ie, a stock 10" pressure plate will work fine with a 9" disc.
jd52cranbrook Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 Flywheels show up with 4, 6 or 8 bolts, all on the same bolt circle. If you want to continue using the clipped head bolts then any additional holes must be accurate in location as well as diameter. If you change to cap screws then you must make sure that the flywheel does not have a shoulder against which the clipped head bolt normally rests. If the shoulder exists and you change to cap screws then either remove the shoulder in a lathe or use a counter-bore.Also, if you change to cap screws, the location and diameter of the bolt holes does not need the same accuracy as if using oem fasteners. As mentioned, the 230 has a thicker flange than the 218 has. If the 'new' flywheel is from a 230 there are no issues. As mentioned, if the new wheel is from a 218 then the flywheel will move a bit away from the starter. Some flywheels have very wide ring gears (up to ½") and the starter interface will not be affected as much as with the wheels having a skinny ring gear. As for clutch, you can use a larger pressure plate with a somewhat smaller disc as long as the pp fits inside the bell and has the proper style finger for the throwout bearing, ie, a stock 10" pressure plate will work fine with a 9" disc. Yep, what he said,,,,
Powerhouse Posted May 12, 2010 Report Posted May 12, 2010 so i bought the crank and rods for my 218 and am making a 230, i also need a 230 flywheel, where cna i get one of those? i was told i need that becuase the bolt patterns are different then my 218? Just wonderin' how much a crank and rods would cost?
james curl Posted May 13, 2010 Report Posted May 13, 2010 I originally had a four hole P-15 flywheel installed on my 41 Dodge engine and crank in my 48 P-15. Eight hole crank to four hole flywheel, I had no problems with the starter engaging. After my 4600 mile trip to California and Bonneville I replaced all of my wrist pin bushings and installed new mains and rod bearings, the dumb mechanic installed the wrong upper half on the front main and caused a dry rod bearing. I had my original four hole crank reground and installed it in the 41 Dodge block and I have not had any issues since. Not sure of all of the differences. I think the difference might actually be in the flywheels themselves.
michael.warshaw Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Posted May 14, 2010 when i put the od tranny in will it fit the 218 bell housing?
wayfarer Posted May 14, 2010 Report Posted May 14, 2010 Not sure of all of the differences. I think the difference might actually be in the flywheels themselves. This is not absolute or definitive, but I have physically measured numerous crankshafts and the projection of the flange from the block. It appears that when MotherMopar made the flanges thicker 'she' added the material to the trans face of the flange thus moving the flywheel rearward. The thicker flange appears to have been used on the longer stroke engines (strokes longer than 4.375). If anyone has additional info it would be good to hear it as this subject arises with some frequency. Perhaps those that have spare flywheels could measure the thickness from the mounting surface of the crank to the clutch face. Yes there will be alot of variations simply due to having the surface machined perhaps once or even five times but there might be a common thread.
Don Coatney Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 i was told i need that becuase the bolt patterns are different then my 218? How are they different? i dont get the question?? Now do you get the question? If you are still confused think bolt patterns? Tell me exactly how they are different.
michael.warshaw Posted May 15, 2010 Author Report Posted May 15, 2010 from what i was told 230 flywheel has 8 holes and 218 4 holes, so i was unsure if it would work. My machinist was concerened about the difference, i was told by a few it would work just fine. i am goingto stick with my 218 flywheel this way i dont run into problems with lining up issues.
Jim Yergin Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 Michael, The problem is not with the number of holes. It is the offset on the flywheel. The crankshaft on the 230 is slightly longer than on the 218. If you use your 218 flywheel, it will sit too far back and your starter will not engage. You need a flywheel for a 230 if you want to be able to start your car. The 230 flywheel has a deeper offset that moves the flywheel forward and allows the stater to reach it. Jim Yergin
Don Coatney Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 from what i was told 230 flywheel has 8 holes and 218 4 holes, so i was unsure if it would work. My machinist was concerened about the difference, i was told by a few it would work just fine. i am goingto stick with my 218 flywheel this way i dont run into problems with lining up issues. Thanks for the response. I used my P-15 4 bolt flywheel on my Desoto 8 bolt crankshaft. The 4 bolts will only line up one way as the 8 holes and the 4 holes are not symetrical. But once the right combination is found everything will line up. However as already has been mentioned you will need to make sure the crankshaft flange thickness is not an issue. Only way to do this is to measure it, do a mock up, and test fit all components. If you or your mechanic knows what he/she is doing this will not be a problem. I trust from the information you have been given here you can make it work. Here is what I had to do. Good luck on your project.
dezeldoc Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 Hey Don, i see you did some old time racing tricks and lightened up the bellhousing!
_shel_ny Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 (edited) The recessing of the starter in the bell housing was included on 1-8-2010 in a thread about the work being done on this very same engine/car. Facts have likely not changed since then. Snippet from that thread follows: Originally Posted by blueskies View Post I would think so... if I remember correctly, Don machined a recess in his flywheel about 3/16" deep to align his starter to the 218 flywheel. It was cheaper for me to get the 230 flywheel than to drive 70 miles to the nearest machine shop... Pete Not the flywheel. The bell housing. I am also running a 4 bolt flywheel coupled to an 8 bolt crankshaft. Edited May 15, 2010 by shel_bizzy_48
Guest P15-D24 Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 Michael,The problem is not with the number of holes. It is the offset on the flywheel. The crankshaft on the 230 is slightly longer than on the 218. If you use your 218 flywheel, it will sit too far back and your starter will not engage. You need a flywheel for a 230 if you want to be able to start your car. The 230 flywheel has a deeper offset that moves the flywheel forward and allows the stater to reach it. Jim Yergin You need a 230 flywheel for the starter to engage. The holes (4 to 8) will match once you find they right combo, but you still have the starter problem.
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