Yet another T-5 route

[jd52cranbrook]

A pretty novel approach compared to what I have studied on here.

I have actually purchased a T-5 built for me.

The specs are;

1352-199 Ford 1990 Mustang 5.0L V8 WC Y 3.15 3.35 1.99 1.33 1.00 0.68

With S-10 tail housing for the front shift, and a mechanical speedometer in the correct location of the tranny.

I am also going to use a adapter plate from Paul Curtis at

http://www.1935plymouth.com/

And I am going to use a E brake similar to this. (I have not read to many answers for parking brakes in these T-5 threads)

Emergency brake set up

The builder of the tranny was

Earl Johnson at;

hjhnracing@msn.com

(512)809-5923

I met Earl on EBay while looking for a T-5. We have had more than several email and a couple of phone conversations. I now have the tranny on my work bench and am pulling my stock OD tranny out this weekend. I am waiting for the kit from Paul now.

Also my drive line will have to be shortened, and a S-10, 27 spline yoke used. I am currently running a modern drive shaft and U-joint assembly so I will take it back to where I purchased it for the work. (south bay drive line)

The reasons I am going this route are several;

1. Although I like to work on my car, I know nothing about tearing into a transmission. And yes, even though new things can be fun, I usually have to do things once or twice to get them the way I want. So I do not want to risk my time and effort on a learning experience when I can be;

2. DRVING MY CAR. My most fun is driving, going to places on weekend excursions, car shows, etc. (This car has been to Detroit and back twice for Woodward Dream Cruise, and am planning on going again very soon). So down time is a issue. Here in California there is not many bad weather days where a cruise in a old car would not brighten it up. So minimum down time was a factor also.

3. My car now has OD in it, and I had another for a 48 Dodge I was going to work on, but donated the car to a local high school auto shop instead. So I sold the OD for the 48, and have a buyer for the one in my car now, so in essence I am doing OK price wise on the swap. The adapter kit price is posted on Paul's web site, and I feel it better you negotiate with Earl on the tranny's price. There are always naysayers when it comes to money it seems. But I will say Earl was very flexible with me.

4. Reliability factor; I have a warranty on the T-5, and I trust Paul's adapter will work fine. I also feel I will have safe parking brake without replacing the rear end for a modern one.

Earl is a great guy to work with on the tranny build. I will admit dealing with someone on EBay could be very risky, but I am very happy with the results to date. We talked ratios quite a bit before deciding on the one I have. Although if someone has a T-5 with 2.95 first gear using their 3.9 rear I'd like to know how 1st gear is for them.

Anyway, it should be in and running with a e brake within the month. I am one of the unlucky (or lucky?) guys who still have to work to get by so my time on the car is limited to weekends when I can. Plus I am doing this, and all my previous engine swaps, etc are all done in a one car garage. And it even gets cold here in CA so that is a factor too,, lol.

More to come, if interested.

Edited January 10, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[Young Ed]

You had me until you claimed it gets cold in CA. Good luck on your swap. I was just down in my basement where its probably as cold as CA is trying to get the drainplug out of the t5. Who woulda thunk that unbolting the 5spd from its bellhousing and getting the drain plug removed would be this challenging.

[jd52cranbrook]

You had me until you claimed it gets cold in CA. Good luck on your swap.

Guess it's all relative,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and thanks,

[Flatie46]

Good luck on your swap, I like the E brake. Keep us posted on your progress. Cold in CA? Are you gonna have to put on long pants:D?

[BeBop138]

JD, the Curtis adapter is for the Chev bolt pattern and your tranny is a Ford, the bolt patterns are different. Unless Curtis makes them for both?

[jd52cranbrook]

JD, the Curtis adapter is for the Chev bolt pattern and your tranny is a Ford, the bolt patterns are different. Unless Curtis makes them for both?

Yes, and for long and short input shafts as well.

And yep, long pants,,,,

[BeBop138]

Thanks, good to know Curtis makes both. You will love the T-5...........Lee

[jd52cranbrook]

Update 1/25/10

The adapter kit from Paul Curtis arrived today. Had a small delay with a back order for the pilot bushing.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s40/jd52cranbrook/1952%20Plymouth%20Cranbrook/Technical/T-5%20Conversion/Adapter%20Kit/

Also I have been working on a parking brake set up. I looked on the Internet and really found nothing that will bold right on. So I decided to fab my own.

I bought a 7.8 inch brake disc from Northern Tool. I cut the protruding hub off one side and ground it flat. Then I drilled the holes to sandwich it between the differential and drive shaft. I may have a clearance issue as is sits about 2 inches from the body and may hit when I go over large bumps. So I will probably cut it down once I see how much the caliper needs to grab the disc.

This is the disc and caliper I bought

I am trying another picture hosting site, called picasa. Here is a link to the disc cut, grind and install.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jd52cranbrook/ParkingBrakeDisc#

Maybe you can guys and gals can let me know what site is easier to view the pictures?

More to come,

JD

Edited January 26, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[Johnny S]

JD .... the photo viewing was great ... I actually liked the picasweb style better at first use .... I like the tags you added. This style of brake appears to hold some great possibilities ..... hope the upper clearance works out ok.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Johnny S

[steveplym]

Enjoying keeping up with your progress JD. Good luck with your project, keep the updates coming.

[jd52cranbrook]

Thank you,

I like the Picasa also, it's good for editing. However I have yet to find a way to upload pics to posts here like I can with photo bucket. Maybe I need more practice with it.

I should have added in the above post;

The jeep Cherokee throwout bearing fits both the shaft of the T-5, AND will fit on our clutch forks with no modifications. I like that part.

[LAKOTA169]

(This car has been to Detroit and back twice for Woodward Dream Cruise, and am planning on going again very soon).

JD, is this you?

[jd52cranbrook]

Well that's Kathleen,, I'm the driver. That looks like the first year out with the Plymouth. I went there twice before with my Prowler and yet another with the Plymouth after this picture.

The car has changed some since then with a OEM sun visor, chrome wheels, etc.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[LAKOTA169]

You were just a couple blocks from my house. nice looking car. If you make it down for Dream Cruise again, let me know.

[Flatie46]

That's a nice looking ride you've got there. My son has a 52 and can't wait to show him that pic. I think this is an excelent idea, thanks for the throw out bearing tip.

[jd52cranbrook]

Thank you, and your welcome. LAKOTA169, I'll be sure and look you up.

I'd really like to make it out to Detroit this year, but the economy is down on my job. But I still may say screw it and go anyway. You only live once, and to be honest, I love the long drives cross country. Plus I have made some good friends there.

The first year out I think I just finished rewiring the car 5 days before I left. I took spare everything just about. I went solo and flew Kathleen out when I pulled into Detroit.

I will try to post Paul's flyer that has more info on the swap.

Edited January 27, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[jd52cranbrook]

Well I cant seem to post the whole flyer, its a word document, and I cant seem to get the pictures on it to copy. He is having his web site updated, it may even be done by now.

But here is the text anyway. Has more info than the first one.

A Five-Speed Overdrive For Your Old Mopar!

There are now two adapter kits available to allow you to install the popular Borg Warner or Tremec T5 5-speed overdrive in your flathead six Plymouth or Dodge. One has the GM S-10 bolt pattern, the second has the Ford Mustang and 1993-1995 Camaro and Firebird bolt pattern. Interesting, the 1984-85 Chevrolet Chevette also used the Ford case!

There are some things to consider when deciding which box to use. The big S-10 plus is that the shifter is in the most forward position possible. There are many used S-10 transmissions available and those built prior to 1989 have a mechanical speedometer. First gear ratios are 4.03, 3.76 & 3.5.

As shown here, there is some interference

with the stock right rear motor mount

(1938 & up) using the wider S-10.

The stock Mopar throwout bearing sleeve/collar is too small for the S-10 bearing retainer. You can hone out the sleeve or you can turn down the retainer to fit. You can also sleeve the retainer and use a 1996-2001 Cherokee throwout assembly.

One last option is to simply use a Ford bearing retainer and machine the O.D. of the pilot flange to match the S-10. Most

stock Mopar clutch forks fit the 2” wide Cherokee throwout.

The input shaft on the S-10 is shorter than the stock Mopar so the kit includes an Oilite bushing to support the S-10 input pilot.

The shorter shaft also repositions the input splines requiring that a special clutch disc be assembled with a reversed, offset hub to get the input splines deeper into the disc.

The Mustang box has one big problem...unless you have bucket seats the shifter is too far back so you’ll have to buy a second box just to get the S-10 tailhousing and shift parts. On the plus side, Ford has been World Class since 1985, eight years before the S-10. The Mustang box is stronger and has the more popular 3.35 and 2.95 first gear ratios.

The Ford narrow bolt pattern makes installation a little easier as it clears the rear motor mounts on most years of Mopars. A photo comparing the two transmissions appears at the bottom of this page.

A second plus is that the Mustang bearing retainer will accept the Cherokee throwout with no modifications.

Like the S-10, most Mustang input shafts are short, so the kit includes a special Oilite bushing to support the input pilot and a clutch disc with a reversed, offset hub.

A third plus for Ford is that there were some long input shafts in certain Mustangs in 1994-1995. These inputs are ¾” longer and can use a stock clutch disc. The special pilot bushing is still required. My T5 #1352-238 is a 1994-1995 V-6 box with a long shaft. I also have T5 #1352-249 Z code Cobra box with a short shaft.

Here you can see how the S-10 and Mustang transmissions

look bolted to the Mopar flathead six motor.

The kit is priced at $295. plus $17.00 shipping

Price good until 10/31/09.

Paul Curtis 19319 Candlelight Roseville, MI 48066 586-296-2488 pjplymouth@netscape.net

[Johnny S]

JD ..... regarding the parking brake idea. You said: "Also I have been working on a parking brake set up. I looked on the Internet and really found nothing that will bolt right on. So I decided to fab my own. I bought a 7.8 inch brake disc from Northern Tool. I cut the protruding hub off one side and ground it flat. Then I drilled the holes to sandwich it between the differential and drive shaft. I may have a clearance issue as is sits about 2 inches from the body and may hit when I go over large bumps. So I will probably cut it down once I see how much the caliper needs to grab the disc."

How will this new parking brake design impact driveshaft balance ... or will it? If it does .... have you thought about how would one go about balancing it? Also, have you read about or thought about how the added mass back there will impact bearing life?

[jd52cranbrook]

It bolts right onto the rear end, before the U joints of the drive shaft. I don't think that is a issue. But being I have to get the drive shaft cut anyway, I guess I could bolt it onto the drive shaft when I take it to get cut and balanced.

I should add this also is not a direct bolt on. I have to make a bracket for the caliper. But I would have to do that anyway with the other "brake kits" out there, and less expensive also.

Also, it weighs less than a pound. The drive shaft hangs off the same bolts. I don't feel bearing life is a issue either, but time will tell I guess.

Edited January 27, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[jd52cranbrook]

The tranny is now in. Beware !!! For those who do not know, the floor board has to be cut away to make room. I was not too concerned about that until I see the cutting included a brace (for what's it worth).

After the install is complete I will fab a panel of thicker gauge metal and securely tie right into the remaining brace on both sides.

I also received the caliper I am going to use. More on that later.

Here are some pics

oops

trying again

Try this one

Edited February 8, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[jd52cranbrook]

Wonder what I'm doing wrong here.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jd52cranbrook/FinalInstall#

That worked,,,

[blueskies]

Looks good JD. I'll be interested to hear how you like it once you get it on the road.

Pete

[thrashingcows]

Those cuts make me cringe....I know they have to be done to get what you want, but I still hate cutting up my cars.

[jd52cranbrook]

I hear ya. I made a nice hole cut with a large hole saw for the shifter location before I realized I had to open it up so much. Not only does it need clearance while in, it needs clearance while sliding in and out. I did take the shifter off first, but, no such luck of not cutting it open.

[jd52cranbrook]

Went for a test drive yesterday. MAN it is nice to have close ratio tranny with no electric to worry about for overdrive.

I still have things to do, and learned a few more things.

1. Still have to make a floor cover for it, right now I have the carpet over it.

2. Had a issue with it not sliding in all the during install. I had to pull it snug with the bolts. Turns out it was the excess RTV around the front bearing retainer holding it off. Once I cleaned that off, the next install went right in.

3. Another issue was the adapter plate bottom was hitting against the cross member for the rear engine mounts.

Also learned that my rear motor mounts were not correct, and shorter than should be.

I have a new set of rubber I had been saving, so put that in. Also heated the cross member with a torch and pounded it in a bit for good measure.

Also had to be careful of the length of the bolts holding the tranny onto the adapter plate. If too long they dig into either the cross member on the bottom, or the bell housing on top.

4. But the main thing I learned is; same part number does not mean same physical qualities, as in

The front bearing retainer, even with the same part number 027.931, have different lengths of "shoulders". (the part that holds the collar for the throw out bearing to slide on.)

Mine is 2 inches, Paul Curtis's the adapter kit person, is 1 1/2 inch.

The reason this matters is throw out bearing travel. As it is now, mine barely has any room, if any to slide back off the pressure plate when the clutch is released. So my clutch slips a bit with a heavy gas pedal. See below

So Earl Johnson, the tranny builder is sending me out another, "shorter shoulder" retainer. (confused yet? lol)

BTW Earl has been great during this whole process. If anyone wants to do this conversion I would recommend him if you want a "built" transmission with no hassles whatsoever.

While waiting for the retainer I will have time to do the floor pan. I have a piece of 16 awg sheet metal to fab, I think I may include a center console that will hold my stereo components.

Edited March 7, 2010 by jd52cranbrook