Disc brake, dropped uprights, and new master cylinder install. Tech Artical

[Mustang6147]

That is what I am concerned about. The peddle travel, and ECI mount up. I am wondering if I should just leave the single cylinder in it for now. I really hate to though.

[Jim Yergin]

I installed the ECI bracket and dual master cylinder in my '41. I have four wheel disk brakes on my car. The master cylinder is a Corvette unit. It is relocated from in front of the brake pedal to behind the pedal. I had to grind off the corner of the boss on the lower rear corner to get it to fit. I also had to raise the attachment point for the clutch pedal return spring so that it would not interfere with the new brake pedal push rod pivot. Despite all that, I am very pleased with how it operates. I had tried using a dual reservoir master in the location in front of the pedal but the travel was wrong. To get it to go far enough to work, the push rod could not return far enough to clear the relief hole and the brakes would lock up.

Jim Yergin

[Mustang6147]

Jim... That is the info I was lookin for. I hate to do something somebody already did, and it didnt work. I notice the rod goes forward from the brake peddle, the to a pivot mouted on the fram. I assume that bolts on in the place of the MC bracket, then the rod goes down to the new Dual Cyl MC... Do you still have the part number for the ECI kit? I am thinking from talking to ECI all parts included.

[Jim Yergin]

I used part #EC-441. I have a pdf copy of the installation instructions. I can send them to you if you give me an email address either here or in a PM.

Jim Yergin

[tankwilson]

Well guys i was back in the shop for a short time sunday. I really only got the front shock mounts tacked into place. I have to spend more time in this area than most because i need to be aware of the shock when the airbags are inflated and deflated. I am using the 87 shock like fatman suggests. It has little over 8" of travel which is good because that is about what i need. I figure that the car will sit on the ground more often all the way up in the air. I put a piece of tape on the shock where it bottoms out so that i can see where im at when installed. I had to cut about and inch out of the fatman shock mount so that when the car sits on the ground the shocks are almost bottomed out. I also took the old upper shock mount and welded it to the fatman new mount. Also made a new lower mount on the lower A arm because i have the uprights with no lower mount. No big deal.

Here are a few pics of where im at now. Will get more done next weekend.

This is how it will look when the car is lowered

This is an idea of what it will look like up some

Stock fatman upper shock mount with stock mount welded in

The mark is what im gonna cut out

Edited March 28, 2010 by tankwilson

[tankwilson]

I know im not the only one... but im unsure why some of us have issuse with steering arm clearance and others seen to have a ton of room. Not that big of a deal i guess but seems werid. I think i have mine figured out but i had to do alot of checking and double checking to make sure everthing is gonna work. Still not %100 sure but think i am close. Maybe some of my problems are that i am not using the correct uprights for my car. I am using newer uprights with no lower shock mounts. Fatman tells me there all the same. ??? Charlies disc brake kit seems like it will work and haven't had any issues. My setup is unique because of the air bags.... so that is something to think about too.

Got some requests....

Hey Mustang could you do me a favor??? could you take a tape and measure the center of the upright to the setscrew just to see if yours and mine are the same? Fatman has told me that all the mopar uprights are the same except for some have the lower shock mount and some don't.

Also could you guys that are running stock steering on a stock car count the number of turns from center to one side? I get around 1.5 - 1.75 turns on my setup now. I wish i would have check before so i could see if i am the same.

Thanks guys.

[moose]

Also could you guys that are running stock steering on a stock car count the number of turns from center to one side? I get around 1.5 - 1.75 turns on my setup now. I wish i would have check before so i could see if i am the same.

Thanks guys.

I just went out and checked. I have about 2.25 turns center to one side. This is on my 55 with stock suspension and Charlies discs.

[Mustang6147]

Hey Mustang could you do me a favor??? could you take a tape and measure the center of the upright to the setscrew just to see if yours and mine are the same? Fatman has told me that all the mopar uprights are the same except for some have the lower shock mount and some don't.

Thanks guys.

I am confused, "center of the upright to the set screw". can you clarify this, then I will be happy to meassure.

[tankwilson]

Center of the upright part that mounts to the upper and lower A arms to the set screw that holds the kingpin. I am curious to see if your upright moves the kingpin out farther than mine.

Anyone got a 49 or 50 plymouth with stock steering that could check their turns???? I think the 55 is much different than the 49 or 50. Not sure though.

Thanks

matt

[1950 Special Deluxe]

I can check mine tonight, it is a 1950 Dodge Special Deluxe, basically the same as the Plymouth. Totally stock and up on jackstands while I do the brakes.

[1950 Special Deluxe]

I just checked the steering on my car and it is not quite 2.25 turns from center to the stop in either direction.

It is just over 4 revolutions from stop to stop.

Hope this helps.

[tankwilson]

Thanks 50 anyone else just to make sure.

[Mustang6147]

Well, I have been out in the garage, and as I am finding, alot of inconsistencies. While Jims post was the most helpfull, I did not have to grind my master cylinder, but I cannot get the arm in the cylinder, and conected to the bell crank. I sit about 1 inch off, and scratching my head.

Tank, I am sorry I did not get to measure, but as far as your steering wheel turns go, I think that about right. The biggest difference in the years is the center link. While newer then my 41 has a center link conecting to the right side outer tie rod end, mine (41) is set up like a golf cart. No center link, not idler arm. That probably makes up the difference in years / turns...

I am not changing my tie rod end yet till I drive my car, because, if I had a center link, the bump steer would be created from 1 rod pointing up, the other pointing down. I do not, and while moving my suspension threw the range of travel, I get minimal steering variance 1 up 1 down, instead of both up... Sounds like my big brother asking me if I want 1 up or 2 down. LOL.

[dndrodshop]

Here's a DIY verison of brakes:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~dndrodshop/disc.htm

[Mustang6147]

I am sorry for the long delay on responding. Here are my measure ments

Center of the top A-arm hole to middle of the kingpin mount on the upright is

5 3/4

Center of bottom to same point....5 1/4

Outer most part of kingpin mount on new upright, to back of upright 3 3/4

I hope this helps. My car is down, and my back has flaired up, so my mobility got limited really quik.

[tankwilson]

Thanks for the measurements. Will go check them tomorrow.

Well i went out to my parts car, jacked up the front end, and turned the steering wheel. I get about 2.5 turns from center to either side. Really more like 2 turns.

I am close on my car, I can get it to turn almost 2 turns when turning to the left but only 1.5 turns when to the right.

My problem is the steering arms are hitting the lower A arm. I have done some grinding here and there just to get where i am at. It would seem and if my kingpin mounts on the uprights where just a little higher or the steering arms bent UP, they would clear. I am almost considering switching them back to their original sides and then bending them so that the tie rods will clear the frame when the air bags are down.

Has not switched their steering arms from side to side when installing fatman???

Will do some more work tomorrow and get you some pics. Hope to finally button up the dropped uprights and shock mounts.

Thanks

matt

Edited March 13, 2010 by tankwilson

[Mustang6147]

I can say that I did not switch steering arm sides.

My knowledge comes from drag raceing. When the car launches, the front end is in the air. As it settles, and speed picks up, it is imparitive the car steers true no matter the tire travel.

That being said; I applied this to the steering in the Plymouth, Switching arms, putting them back, and lifting the front end of the car to watch the tire alignment change. On my car, The left arm was bent down, and the right arm was stright. I bent the right arm down to the same as the left, but, I also notice my steering alignment varied the least by leaving 1 tie rod end in from the bottom, and the other from the top. This contradicts what FatMan has stated. I thought this because I do not have a center link.

My disclaimer is, I have not driven the car on the road yet because of snow, and salt....

Hope this helps

Mike

[fstfish66]

mustang,,,if it helps,, i am using a brake pedal and master cylinder mounting bracket on my 40 from master power brake,,

my disc brake kit/parts looks exactly like the one you pictured,but came from master power brake, before i bought the car,,all tho im useing fatr man rack and pinion,,this may be why some things fat man told you dont seem to be true on your car,, you are useing stock steering box and linkage,,???

my spinsles also were modified to accept the GM rotors,,,i so want to go to a ford/mopar rotor,,,but may just redrill the rotor for the pattern if i change rim styles,,,

i dont have any pic currently of the master power brake and cylinder mouint,,i installed the car is in storage for a little bit longer,,hoper to have it out this year some time,,my car had the stock master cyl mount and it was adapted ,,andwasnt correct,,the pivot position was incorect, the master power pedal and under car master cyl mounting bracket cured all that,,,the ECI stuff is nice but costly,,,

[Mustang6147]

Master Power Brakes does not sell the system needed for the 41 plymouth. They do sell a universal one that will not work, but it is $100.00 more, and will require alot of fabrication.

I went with the ECI, and it is done. Jim Yergins post was very helpfull.

All in All I am very satisfied, and if I had another 41 plymouth and wanted to upgrade, I would use the exact same stuff.

[fstfish66]

mustang,,is the 41 that much different from the 40 ? hard to believe,,,but you know ma mopar,,,

i scrolled back and took a good look at jims post and pics,,same idea as my master power unit,,but appears to be mounted more forward then mine is,,nice,, and looks to be reworked factory pedal and mount,,,when i get my car out ill get pics it will be a while,,

Edited March 9, 2010 by fstfish66

[Mustang6147]

I honestly dont know, however I felt this ECI was a bit pricey, and when you said your system was less $, and was the same as in the picture, I gave them a call if anything to see how bad I was ripped off.

There tech dept told me, I could only use a universal kit on my plymouth. They emailed me a picture, and it looked nothing like the ECI model depicted in post 127, and because of clearence reasons it wouldnt work anyways...

Keep in mind, there are 2 different pictures on this thread, mine is like post #127. The other which is different is post # 89

Edited March 9, 2010 by Mustang6147

[tankwilson]

I agree ECI is pricey especially if you are a fabricator. There is nothing really spectacular about their kit. I will say that their kit is built very well and there has been a lot of thought put into it. I could have made one for sure but it would have taken along time make it fit and be sure about it. If you think about it and if your time is worth anything then their kit isn't that expensive for good quailty parts. I am very happy.

Got the all the old brake lines tore out last weekend. Got plans this weekend but will start working on making new brakelines and modifying my floor next weekend.

stay tuned.....

[dezeldoc]

Here is the Brake peddle mount and MC mount i made for the 50, it uses a 73 A body master.

[Jim Yergin]

That's nice work.

Jim Yergin

[fstfish66]

I honestly dont know, however I felt this ECI was a bit pricey, and when you said your system was less $, and was the same as in the picture, I gave them a call if anything to see how bad I was ripped off.

There tech dept told me, I could only use a universal kit on my plymouth. They emailed me a picture, and it looked nothing like the ECI model depicted in post 127, and because of clearence reasons it wouldnt work anyways...

Keep in mind, there are 2 different pictures on this thread, mine is like post #127. The other which is different is post # 89

mustang sorry for the long delay on a reply,,,the pedal i have in my 40 from master power,,,was sold to me as a replacement for a 40,,there is or was some sort of plate on the top of the frame rail orignally i believe ?? but is not there since ive owned this car,,when i recieved the pedal,it had some sort of paper work,,and a note that said ,when you get this installed please take pics and send them to us please us being master power,,,they said they would give me some sort of nice gift,,LOL so i called and asked what is was about,,then they told me is was a universal pedal,,well i made a plate to fit on top of the frame rails and bolted the pedal in so it was in the correct position in side the car,,and it had the correct pivot position for the master cylinder push rod,,,then i bought there under the car master cyl kit,,mounting bracket and linkage,,i remade the master cylinder mount,and moved it farther forward so i would not have to move my under floor battery box ,,,

before i did all that i had pics from ECI that was a set up just like the pic we are talking about, the pics were of the product,,not in a frame,,so i didnt get all the bel;l crank stuff,,but since this pic your talking about it all makes sence now,,, sorry ill try to reply much faster,,,