50plymouth

Edmunds has more water galleys in the front of the heads and the engines don't run hot. The Edgy head does. Claims of no issues, are a little under stated. Earl is a great guy and very smart. He got into mopars in the 90s and I applaud his arrival although I have had one of his heads it over heated. I bought on of his intakes. It was better than an offy that it seems it was the starting point for, it was not as good as the last Edmunds and I now have one of the new AoK intakes which hasn't been installed yet although it clearly looks superior. The other issue is Edmunds heads have not been produced for approximately 50 years so they are getting scarce. What I don't know is if Earl has changed his pattern to increase the cooling to the front of the head. I wasn't happy with mine and sold it on ebay along with my edgy intake. If it wasn't for the overheating I would not have sold the head. The spark plug holes are different between the two but I have seen guys modify the Edmunds as well. You also have to realize that both have the issue of being a different metal than the block and by the very nature there is an issue. Edmunds built his small and big block heads at a time when the combustion chambers and compression was far less from the factory. In the early 50s the Canadian big block heads chambers changed and up went the compression. The small blocks did the same later in the 50s. Beyond the look, I would love to see any real proof that your not further ahead with a 1950s cast iron head shaved than an aluminum head. I have asked for years, and no one has come up with any. Its a little like the spitfire head discussion. If you like the look I cant argue with that. Putting an aluminum head on a cast iron block, is an issue so you best hope there is a major performance gain. Running hot at the front, sadly that is an issue and you can very inexpensively by a temperature gun and prove what I am telling you there. You can argue maybe the middle cylinders might run warmer, but there is no reason the front cylinders should and they do with an Edgy head. I wish that wasn't the case and hopefully Earl has adapted his pattern to fix that since I bought mine.

There were lots of changes, including the introduction of overdrive, which also changed a lot from the 1934-1941 time frame. There is a great blog article by the AoK boys with pictures that gives you an idea. Now those are overdrives but it will give you an idea Its floor shift to 1938 and then 1939 has a floor shift or column shift. But in the 30s they change the emergency brake connection from one side of the car to the other. So can you make an adapter, yes but its not simple. Your truck other than it is a floor 3 speed is nothing like what he is looking for, but yes most a lot of 1938s will fit but not all of them. Maybe the AoK boys could be talked into amending that article or putting up one that showed the different non-overdrive transmissions. hint hint..

I would suggest when the original poster posted and I quote - "I am not looking to convert to a T-5 or other modern transmission at this time" .. Your Ranger transmission would be in his list of ones he wasn't looking for. Im sure you just missed that.

and your point is ? I think were both on about the same page.. other than there are some 1938 trannys with the parking brake coming off the wrong side. I have seen 3 or 4 over the years.

35 wont work, 39 wont work. Well you can make anything work I realize, but the 39 and some of the 38s have the parking brake on the wrong side and the 39 has other issues. The 35 is an animal on to its own. I have been down this road a couple of times.

Happy Birthday George ! That sounds like a great way to celebrate ones 85th birthday. That's Tim for giving us a glimpse into things and Oh My God I was drawling looking at all of those intakes.

Sold in the USA, absolutely they were. Made in the USA, absolutely they were not. Every single one made in Windsor Ontario Canada,

I agree on the double wow. I have seen the signs pictures before and often wonder how come its not been snapped up. I have talked with my wife Shelly about a Christmas present, birthday present, 30th anniversary president, ground hog day present, anything. All I get is "downsizing" which gets a grrrrrrrrrr (to quote Tim). I do know the restoration firm well. If you got to their gallery 3 on their website and look for the united service sign. That is mine http://www.vankannelsignrestoration.com/ It was actually rougher than the before picture shows. It took a lot longer than I expected to get it done. It was extremely expensive but the finished product was off the hook incredible. The after picture they have doesn't do it justice. Which translates to when I see Tim's Dad's sign with all that checker board and being two sided I can only imagine the restoration tab. I may just have to load up the bride and go get her picture taken beside the sign and say Happy Anniversary. Hit or Smile ? I know Tim the car is sold but if something happens that falls though, Im your huckleberry! Paul

What we know if it says spitfire the engine was made in Canada. It will be 25 1/2" across the head, vs a 230 or the flatheads made in the USA which are 23 1/2" long. As some one pointed out it maybe a Chrysler Engine and it could be a Dodge, Desoto or Plymouth engine that someone put a spitfire head on top of. You say you have a crate motor. Of course is that crate motor a 23 1/2 or 25 1/2 engine. There is a good blog on the forum called keeping up with the AoK guys. You can see some good intake information. They also show the factory dual intake and exhaust that came out a year after your truck. If you can find out it will fit on your setup. There are a few guys with formulas and tips for trying to get an engine unceased that you may want to check out. If you can get it unceased it would help to take it apart if that is the route you go. I would suggest finding someone close to you that has worked on Flatheads. Take off the pan, head, side cover and do an inspection of things. Have them take off a couple of caps from a main or two and a rod or two and see what the bearings are like. Assuming it hasn't been lost over the years, if you open the door there will be an identification plate on the door post. That will give you some information. The engine serial number is on the block up close to the head towards the front of the engine. That helps a bit. On the block on the drivers side down by the oil pan there will be a date code casted into the block which will also be helpful If you take the pan off there will be a part number on the crank which is helpful. If you get it unceased, turning it over an measuring the stroke (top dead center to bottom dead center) by removing the brass plug in the middle of the head, towards the firewall sticking a rod or hard wire in and gently cranking it over to measure the stroke would nail down what cubic inch engine you have. I would do that so you can determine your options. If it was a early smaller cubic inch Canadian engines it might have you lean more to pulling and replacing and if it is a 265 ci engine then you likely want to consider rebuilding or reusing the crank and rods to build a 265. You certainly have lots of options and there are lots of experts around here to talk to. There are also a lot of "instant experts" so be a little careful who you are getting advise from, how much they really know about trucks and the number of posts they have made is not necessarily and indication on their expertise.

Another great blog entry Tim. It make so much sense when you explain the intake and intake ports technology in lay terms. I know in the early 60s I built and engine and put the competitions valves in the engine hoping to get more fuel. It seemed to hold the engine back. I then carved away at the block trying to improve the flow. That was marginally successful. I then got a triple carb log intake from an old stock car racer and the engine seemed to come alive. I don't even think all of the carbs were identical although I can see the benefits there. The engine idled better. You just had to touch the throttle and it was amazing. I think this was asked before; do you make triple intakes for the 230 ci Plymouth Motors ? Super fan of the AoK boys. Thanks for everything you guys do for the hobby! Paul

No their a failed flawed design. No one with a maxed out race engine ran that intake and Edmunds dropped the design quickly. All of his later model designs were higher up in the air to regain torque and dual barrel concept dropped. Sorry, as perhaps you were hoping this to be some sort of rare performance piece. It is not. You can get better throttle response and more cfm from the carter ball and ball configurations.

I have and I have had friends with them. I believe Edmunds made them to address part of the market that thought 2 barrels would be better than the single barrel carbs of the day. In my case I got one because when Edmunds came out with a much better design, the hot rodders who had the 2x2 took them off and I got one for $20. The manifold was too long and it was not a great design. It didn't bog but the engine lost its torque at the bottom end. It seemed to rev higher. I tried an adapter they had that allowed you to put a single carter ball and ball on the intake. It certainly ran better. Looking back I am not sure if it wasn't the fact that the adapter put the carb further up in the air. My best friend put webers on his with similar results. He made his own adapter plates to raise the webers up off the intake and it helped. I sold that car, while he finally save the $65 and bought the later Edmunds intake and linkage. He put two Dodge truck carbs from a late 40s Dodge truck on that intake and 60 years later, still has the car with that combination.

Its clear you will not get a response from the person you have quoted, but have you considered that it is that type of response that leads to such people leaving ? She could likely respond back that yes there are different factors for fuel consumption between a flathead 6 cylinder ford and a 6 cylinder mopar as there are differences. It does not appear to be that which drew the response in my mind as much as yet another thread that started off talking about p15-d24 mopars and which quickly got dominated with other manufacturers. Those posts I don't read, nor I expect anyone would, as how to improve a flathead mopar. When the thread gets to the point where posters feel their 1997 Ford 150 is relevant, its easy to imagine why people start to leave. For me really the question is why should I stay? I know Knuckleharley your heart is in the right place as much as I know there can be things from one manufacture that can improve another. I would just ask before you either respond to this note or drop me a PM if you wish to discuss further, that you read the original post on the thread. Then read all the posts on the thread and make a judgement to whether you truly believe this thread like too many goes off the trail and into the bush. To the topic at hand I have long ago achieved the 30 mpg goal. It was a challenge among friends when we realized we likely were not going to be able to compete in the fastest car category. It was likely more so what our bring home pay was and as cheap as fuel might now seem, it was still costly at the time. The winning formula is actually fairly simple. A light weight 1936 Plymouth with a 308 gear set placed in it. an r6 overdrive from a Desoto. Dual carbs and dual exhaust and a device from a 1935 Chrysler that allows you to adjust the distributor while driving. It is a knob that through a cable connected to a plate under the distributor allowed you to advance or retard the timing. From Buffalo to Rochester the car got 32 mpg. It was a cool damp may drive and the car was running what was the high octane fuel of the day. The issue with the car was while it was great to drive on the highway when you got up to speed, it took forever to get to speed. At that point in time we were thinking higher top speed at lower rev and saving fuel. I am positive I can point you to several guys way smarter than I who could do a better job to get you to 30 mpg today. From the folks I have hung around most are most interested in getting a little more power and better highway driveability than they are achieving 30 mpg.

When George built carbs and linkage for me they were built and setup on the intake by him. I literally bolted it on the engine, hooked up my linkage coming across the head to his linkage. I fired it up and the engine never ran so smooth. I didn't touch any of the carb adjustments. When you build as many as he does I am sure its possible to have an issue once in a while. I am not saying this is case here, nor am I suggesting you have over adjusted one or both of the carbs. I am sure George will work to resolve your problem. I would suggest another call or talk Tim Kingsbury up on his offer. George and Tim as the A and K or AoK racing and what George who is in his mid 80s doesn't have in computer skills Tim makes up for the partnership. There is 3 hours difference in time between you and them. I am sure if you reached out right now you could get either of them. That is my 2 cents on the topic.

Likely enough knowledge to be dangerous although in this case, with this Isky cam you I was told by Isky tech support that I could not do what you are suggesting. I came across several Isky cams in the early 70s when a local stock car builder passed away. His family auctioned off everything. It was a 3 day auction and I purchased several shelving units of parts. Among that were all kinds of cams, pistons and bearings. I inquired directly with Isky at the time inquiring about specifications as each cam was marked at the end. They mailed me a catalogue. it was pretty easy to identify what I had. A couple I used and a couple I sold. I inquired with Isky tech support about having 3 cams reground. One was this exact profile. I was told they could not regrind the cam to bring it back from the wild. I asked specifically if it was that they didn't regrind cams or if these cams could not be reground. That was a long time ago and perhaps my aging memory is incorrect here although I was sure it was the duration that made this profile so wild. I had put in a lesser duration cam from the pile in a Plymouth. it was a 1023 1/2 miles cam and it was lumpy as anything I had ever seen. Its lift was stock .375 lift but was 250 degrees of duration. When it cam into its own it would scream well past my 5000rpm tach capacity.

If the cam is already .435 lift and .266 duration I doubt your regrinding that cam. I think Tim Kingsbury nailed it. If its more radical than he is using in what is basically a race engine, its not going to be a what Presride has described as his intended use. Isky told me a number of years ago that they no longer stocked or could help me on a flathead mopar cam. Presride has access to an old catalogue and found his cam listed. Sure sounds to me like a good idea to call Edgy for a new cam or cam profile recommendation. With Edgy having made the head he is going to use he would have the leg up on figuring out the cam.

Interesting. Mr Langdon used to have the carter webers that were for the slant six engines. Sharps40 pretty much nailed the tuning instructions on them. I wished I had read his blog about 10 years ago. I ran mine for years. I found a good carter ball and ball truck carb at Spring Carlisle and decided to switch back and compare. For all the talk about how great the performance was. For all the talk about better fuel mileage. In my case it was not relevant. The ball and ball was almost identical if not a touch better fuel mileage and definitely had had better performance. Ive since moved to dual carbs and dual exhaust made by Mr Asche and that really stepped it up a notch. An honest 5 miles per gallon better and a noticeable increase in performance. I know that isn't necessarily a good carter weber verses carter ball and ball item although I did stick with the ball and ball versions for the dual setup. You did pay good money John. Maybe you can send Sharps40's tuning instructions and the reference sheet to Mr Langdon in an email and ask him if it would be relevant to the carb you got from him. I know Mr Langdon has sold a big number of the carter webers to Plymouth owners. He should be able to help you out. If not if you can get your money back the ball and ball carbs are not a bad alternative and I think a better one. I am not 100% sure if the current pricing from Mr Asche. Mine was $150 when I got it and it looked like it was brand new even though it clearly was not. He had rebuilt it.

I love secret spy pictures of cars !

Another great job! Wish I had read this about 30 years ago. Very informative. Thank you.

Thanks for keeping on top of this for us Tim. Have been thinking a few times about how the monster project was progressing. Sure looks like its close to going for a test ride.

I have to have one of those for sure. Will PM you. Great thread as well.

Hi AoK boys and Merry Christmas. Thanks to the great weather, I managed to get my A833 in and on the road before Christmas. Even the bride was impressed. Thanks to your blog and notes it was a lot simpler than I expected. The rear end change worked perfectly. The adapter plate side of the project fit like a glove. As anticipated we had to shorten the drive shaft. I had it out on I90 today and was really impressed. Actually was beyond impressed. There was no problem passing anyone out there. The combination of a better rear end gear set on top of overdrive was perfect. The first 3 gears are pretty much exactly the same feel I was looking for. The A833 actually shifts a little better than my old 3 speed and my kid who wanted a floor shift will be so excited later on today as he gets his Christmas present - The 1948 Plymouth he wanted to buy this spring but it seemed someone bought it before he got there to pay for it! Dam Santa Claus. Ok it was Mom and Dad that scooped him! Thanks again Tim & George for helping make a kids Christmas dream come true!

Yes and unfortunately, just as he did with his earlier steel headers, he has used the "chevy" style instead of the Mopar style. Up on the forum photo section was this original Dodge truck intake. The dual exhaust Fenton, the ones George Asche makes from Stock intakes or several others that make steel headers for the 25" Desoto, Chrysler and Dodge truck engines at least mirror where the one original exhaust exited. Sadly Langdon's which I really looked forward to getting is a complete bust for my truck. He sells the small block ones already so why he would fall back to the chevy center dumps confuses me. Its not because he is trying to make equal length runners as they are not that either. The price is certainly attractive however the design has me shaking my head.

Over on the AoK blog he did a whole series on intakes and I know the Nicson is over there. Here is the link http://p15-d24.com/blog/17-keeping-up-with-the-aok-boys/?st=10

Your a better man than I am. As my wife would tell you I would go postal on a guy for leaving finger prints on my car. To think you have pictures and some one has admitted to leaving them is proof positive of a lot of things for me.