GlennCraven

P.S. I'll go beat the heck out of the frame tomorrow.

Thanks for the input and I'll call French Lake. A Craigslist ad or two in this region would also be a good idea. I agree $850 seems high for just a frame, especially since I paid $1,000 for the car (minus drivetrain). Of course, I got a crummy frame, huh? So what do I know? I figured spending a couple of hours hitting all the regional Craigslist ads couldn't hurt. I saw two or three other Windsors for sale in this four-state area, all four-doors, around the time I bought mine. ... Most of them seemed in lesser condition (from photos anyway) for the same or more money. It also dawned on me that a guy about an hour west of me was at the salvage auction back in July, when I bought my engine and trans. He was looking at a 1950 Dodge Wayfarer coupe -- a fair shell but all the glass busted out and trashed interior -- and told me he had a small salvage yard of mostly Mopar stuff. ... But I've forgotten his name. ... The salvage guy over here probably knows him, though. Or I could drive over there and ask around; only a couple-thousand people live in that county and it probably wouldn't take long to find somebody who could tell me where to find the guy.

Who is "one?" ... You guys, yeah, but not me. I don't have the tools for that kind of work and the guys who do are waiting for me to determine the next move. And which fix? ... The guys at the salvage yard where the car is are afraid there will be more than one, and that the overall frame might not be worth fixing. They are glad to do some welding for me -- scab the bad spot or put in a new section of frame from a donor car, if that were the only weak location -- but they aren't going to pull the body off and sandblast to see for sure what's left of this frame. That just isn't what they do. And we already know there are a couple of body mounts that are shot. They are concerned I'll get nickel-and-dimed to death paying them to fix spot after spot on this frame when a different frame might be a faster and maybe even equally cost-effective answer. Hence, my interest in donor frames. So I've been all over Craigslist to see if there's something out there that might work. Posting the other interesting things I see helps make it less depressing. I've also priced a replacement frame from Moore's Auto Salvage in South Dakota, a place with which a lot of you might be familiar. They have a lot of Mopars, including numerous 1949-50 Chryslers. They have one Windsor that's been mostly stripped, even the floors cut out, so they can get a really good look at the frame. They say it's "as nice as you'll find" -- except for one thing. At some point, somebody apparently needed the very rear stub of the frame where the bumper attaches. That's been cut off. They quoted me $850, picked up in South Dakota or in Sioux Falls, Iowa, if I can meet them next week. That would cut 700 miles off the round trip. And, I've left a message for the local guy whom I've been told can make me a custom frame. It would be good to know what he can do, and at what price.

So in searching far and wide for a frame, I ran across a really nice rolling chassis from an unfortunately cannibalized 1955 DeSoto. It's for sale on eBay. I mention it in this thread in the Outside Links section. It's definitely not a direct match, but maybe could be reasonably modified. Does anybody have a book with the frame dimensions for a '55 DeSoto Firedome coupe? I've found that its wheelbase was 126 inches, while my Windsor is pretty darned close at 125.5, so that's mildly encouraging. The overall length of the cars is very different (the DeSoto is essentially a foot longer) and there's an overall width difference (DeSoto about 78 inches wide, the Chrysler about 73), but that's obviously a function of their bodies more than just the frame, especially considering their similar wheelbases.

I hadn't thought of that, but I'll bet that's true. You could have made a weekend of it just driving around and browsing the inventory in people's yards.

No, I don't think the cars did look any better. From watching the History Channel coverage I think people were bidding on emotion and buying conversation pieces. One guy did say he was buying a 1974 big block (i.e., special-order) Monte Carlo as an investment and intended to double his money in a couple of years, but I think he's nuts. He gave $18,000 I think for a poor condition (albeit "new," maybe?) car that isn't a great year for the Monte Carlo body. You can buy a 1970 SS 454 Monte Carlo in Hemmings Motor News right now for $17,500, nice condition, low miles for the year -- around 100k. ... I don't see that dusty '74 being a $35,000 car in two years just because it was a Lambrecht car. For the Lambrecht provenance to matter that much to you, I suspect you needed to be there, like Woodstock. It did turn out a bit like I expected. Enormous prices on the "new" cars, but a few things that seemed more reasonable or affordable out of the used inventory (some of which still had pretty low mileage) and especially among the non-Chevy vehicles at a Chevy dealer. Like this 1949 Kaiser Yale Blue sedan for $1,400, which could probably be restored or make a unique street rod, at a price I'd have expected from our local salvage auction a few months ago, not The Auction to End All Auctions. I'm having fun going through them today to see if I missed out.

Sweet that you got it out and rolling. And I applaud the picture you took with Mr. Hopkins. That's a great addition to the documentation of your project. Glad to hear about the 318, too. Someone else will have to tell you what you might get mileage-wise, with a carburetor anyway. I had a 318 in a 1997 Ram 1500, but it was FI and routinely got 18 mpg highway; 21 once on a long (loaded) trip right after being tuned by my distant cousin, a former ASE master technician of the year.

Is this the same model as the OP saw? Advertised on the Wichita, Kan., Craigslist as a "1956 Dodge Plymouth" for the price of $3,250.

It was a six, yes. The eight-cylinder cars have much longer noses, of course. And obviously I don't want to rob a frame from another restorable car. But maybe there's just a frame out there, or a car that was seriously damaged in other ways but the frame is intact. Just noticed there's a '48 Dodge sedan with suicide doors and no driveline for $800, about 20 minutes from where I live. But that isn't a frame match. Still, anybody looking for a '48 Dodge sedan?

Ideally I'll ask the guy to come out and look at the car on the lift. If he will and if he's as good as everybody says, he can probably not just assess the current frame situation (worth trying to fix) but also visualize solutions (compatible existing frames, custom frame, etc.). From reading my shop manual -- which becomes less relevant with each major component replaced (sigh) -- the original frame is hardly complex. He could probably duplicate it or come pretty close, with upgrades like a modern rear axle (Explorer?) and maybe front end. I know "Mustang II" is the popular way to go and probably (from talking to his endorsers) what he does much of the time. But my one reason besides cost for not wanting to change the original front suspension was how much I loved the factory look of the interior, including steering wheel, column and shifter, which are items I presume are not often retained by rodders. ... Maybe he can find a way to keep that stuff.

I appreciate cave drawings, too. And yes, I have no use for the wheel/tire package on that wagon.

Frame update, not good news. The rust-through spot I pictured is still the worst we've found. There are other potential trouble spots and the driver's side frame rail may be thin along most of its length. It's just a sketchy situation unless and until we pull the body off and sandblast the frame. Tim very well may be right that the undercoating from years ago filled places in the frame that were supposed to allow water to escape. That and the car has probably sat on the ground for some time before this seller got it and put it back on inflated tires a couple of years ago. The salvage owner said if it were his car, and he's built quite a few, he wouldn't go forward without removing the body, sandblasting the frame and seeing what he has. And at that point, unless we're surprised by how lucky we get, he'd really consider putting the body back on a replacement or custom frame. For the time being, they're just going to set the car out of their way while I make some decisions. I consulted this morning with the director of the local vo-tech auto body program, who knows pretty much everybody for miles around who works with cars. He suggested I speak with a guy nearby who has a day job, but who builds rods and customs in his spare time, including work for others. The vo-tech instructor said this guy doesn't take on many outside projects, because he doesn't want people's cars sitting around his shop undone. But when he does agree to your project, "he knocks it right out and the work is exceptional." This guy could build me "any kind of frame" I wanted, the vo-tech instructor said. The cost, he suggested, was "not super-cheap (but) considering the quality of work it's really reasonable." I showed the vo-tech man a bunch of photos of the Windsor and he understood why I bought it. (For that matter, so did the salvage guy and his shop workers, who all commented how "solid" it was when we rolled it in, before the lift.) "Get a frame and suspension under that body," the vo-tech instructor said, "and you can do the rest." Well that certainly makes it sound (overly) simple. I've actually bumped into the builder in question twice as he cruised around in his own cars. Once at the shop of a local mechanic who also once told me what a great builder this guy is ... a 1959 Rambler wagon: And, at the Casey's convenience store, this Volvo P-1800 ...

You sure did get a lot done. I enjoy seeing the photos from people who are making progress. Good luck!

Andy Bernbaum's probably has what you need. And other sellers, too.

Good luck with the truck and it's cool that you finally got one you've been eyeballing for awhile. My only comment would be that its just as cheap and easy to perform a Mopar LA-series small block swap on these things as a 350 Chevy. Mopar Performance magazine built a 400-horse 318 from the factory parts catalog and Hot Rod built a 400-horse 318 out of a junkyard block and with some swap meet parts (and some new) for under $1,500. Butch's Cool Stuff, which advertises at this site, makes a swap kit with all the parts you'll need to weld or bolt in for $199 to $299 depending on your year/make/model of Mopar. I just bought one and the workmanship is excellent. So unless you like reinventing the wheel (and some guys do), that's a good solution. They also provide kits for putting a 350 Chevy into these things, but then everybody does that, right? Whatever route you go, enjoy it.

Will do, and frame weakness was something I figured may have contributed to the glass breakage. I will say before this trip up and down the frame lift, the doors and trunk all opened and closed like it was a 10-year-old car, not a 64-year-old car. That was one of the things that encouraged me most when I bought it. Made me think the car still had some structural integrity. Didn't think to look at the back glass, which is also original. The man who sold it to me already replaced most or all of the side glass.

The original windshield glass on my '49 wasn't broken until we tried to move it. There was kind of a cloudy portion on the driver's side, but otherwise it looked pretty good. However, dragged onto the rollback and taken to the shop and then deposited off the rollback, the driver's side suddenly had a crack from top to center post in the upper left corner of the class as you look at it from the front. Then, the car went up and down on the frame lift a couple of times and when I looked at the windshield again, there were three big cracks on the passenger side. (Sigh.)

OK, a '63 Impala coupe hardtop was $97,500 (think it was just a 327 car, non SS) and a '58 Chevy Apache for $80,000. An Aussie woman, Cherie Barber -- Australian home improvement show presenter -- came all this way, three planes, 20 hours of flight, a four-hour drive, and bought a '56 Bel Air. She has no idea how to get it back to Australia. I'm sure she can figure it out. Barber was "looking for a feminine car ... something with beautiful curves ... beautiful styling." The electrician from her TV show sent her a link to the cars for sale and she canceled all her public speaking engagements and flew across the Pacific. The best story is probably the elderly man who bought back his '57 Chevy that he traded in at Lambrecht in the early 1960s. It was his first car after coming back to the States from the military.

Oh, and the guy who bought a '49 Suburban, formerly a U.S. government vehicle with about 48k miles, spent $14,000. And he's going to make a "tribute to our troops" by installing a 600-cube twin turbo with a narrowed nine-inch rear and 16-inch slicks.

There were 17 essentially new Chevy C-10 pickups, 1964s, I guess. About a dozen were from fleet sales. I'm guessing most or all had essentially zero miles on them. Rutledge Wood of the U.S. version of "Top Gear" left the History Channel set to go bid on one. He wanted "the nicest," which he said would be a $5,000 truck under normal conditions. The first of the C-10s sold for $10,500 or so. The second one for $20,000. Then one for $40,000. ... Which is crazy because they were essentially the same truck. Colors might have differed, but options, miles and conditions really didn't. He said he felt like a boy who got to the pet store after it closed and all the puppies had already gone home with someone else.

Somebody paid $40,000 for an orchid pink four-door '57 Chevy 210 that was a trade-in Mr. Lambrecht never resold, so it had tens of thousands of miles on it. Then a '57 Bel Air sold for about $27,000. Up now is a '63 Impala four-door with 34K miles. It went for $20,000. As one of the "Top Gear" guys notes, you can buy a better car than most of these, of the same year and model, for a lot less money. It's just the fact that they're Lambrecht cars that is driving up the price on a lot of these.

Watching the coverage replay on History Channel now. ... Really wishing I'd gone. Somebody paid $10,500 for a Vega with 6.1 miles. The Chevy Cameo with 1.3 miles went for $140K. A 1978 Corvette Pace Car, "new," went for $80,000. I don't think there's going to be a full accounting of all the selling prices. That's what I'd have been there to do. Take a photo of every car, write down the final price and put it all online later to fully document this historic auction. P.S. Bidding is at $27,500 for a '69 Chevelle SS 396 that got crushed when snow dropped a building roof on it. ... An underbidder in overalls who was at $25,000 says he just wanted it for the big block and the "SS stuff" -- a parts car for one he already has at home.

I'll look in the shop manual. I remember seeing something about frame repair and accidents when I was leafing through after opening the package. I must have overlooked that there might be interchange information between various Mopar makes and models. Believe me, I was sick to my stomach after finding this on the lift. But after some advice in this thread and a chat with Tim, I'm at least consoled a bit that it's survivable if the repair is done right.

More nice (and quick) work!

Welcome back, from a newbie.