squirebill

'49 Dodge B1B, 3 speed trans. Trans was seized. Disassembled, freed it up, had to replace lower gear cluster. Reassembled and installed. Ran for a few hours and have a leak at one or both of the countershafts at the rear of the transmission. Thought I saw reference to a repair of this leak using welsh plugs. Have searched but can't seem to locate the thread. Can anybody point me to it or some other repair for the leak. Read a thread today that said it is just one of those things that happens with old trucks. Kindof gave the impression that once the crud is cleaned from the transmission, it will leak until the crud builds up again. I'm OK with that, but if there is a clever repair done by others I'd be interested. Thanks and best regards.

I have a B1B that sat for a long time and once I got it running and tried to shift the gears it would grind a bit going into each and every gear. Seemed as though the clutch wasn't completely disengaging. Came to this forum with the problem. Type in "Clutch Installation" in the Search block at top of page. Upshot of my situation was the flywheel had been resurfaced and .200 inches was machined from the thickness. This meant the free play of the clutch pedal was about 3". If the pedal was then pushed to the floor I'm not sure there was enough travel of the throwout bearing to completely disengage the clutch. Measure the thickness of your flywheel from the clutch disc wear surface to the back of the flywheel at it's thickest section. It should be about 1.3" thick. Mine was 1.1" thick. Like recommended above I sent my components to Tennessee Clutch for disc resurface and clutch adjustment with the fingers adjusted .2" high to compensate for the .2" machined off the flywheel surface. They were just delivered to the clutch shop today. Once I get them back and installed will advise this forum. Good luck. Note that I'm dealing with a 1/2 ton B1B pickup. If your stake body is 1/2 ton, dimensions above probably apply. If your truck is a heavier tonnage, I'm not sure.

Once again, looks like the wrong part trying to be used in the wrong place. My crank shaft flange has the step and looks like the bolt pictured above would work great. The bolts I have don't have the flat cut on the head so a small portion of the bolt head is sitting on top of the step on the flange with the rest of the head in contact with nothing. So this gets me back to the question: Is there enough room between the flange and the engine to push the bolts back towards the engine and get them out? Further to this: any body know where I might be able to get the four correct bolts required?

So there you have it. My transmission has an unshielded input shaft bearing. Saw it very clearly as I was freeing up the transmission after it sitting for almost 40 years. The seal on the shaft seems to be working well and considering the amount of driving I intend to do will leave it as is rather than replacing the bearing. Once again Dodgeb4ya, thanks for your input. Seems as though my B1B saw a lot of parts being changed out and maybe not always the correct ones. I bought it in 1972 and it was my daily driver for a few years, so it worked OK as it was. I am the "I" owner on the title with "A" being the first owner so that puts me as the 9th owner. Plugging away on it. Still have the rear axle and brakes to go through. Wonder what surprises are in store. Thinking about calling the truck "RnR" which would stand for "Revived, not Restored"

Keven B1B.....Monday of this week, Post number 48 above, you offered to get some photos of your clutch set up. Based on the findings since then I don't think the photos will be necessary. Appreciate your offer and thanks for considering it. Best regards.

LOL........Us guys is pigs....as hard as we try to keep our minds out of the gutter...... we aren't be able to do it for very long.

Guys....I hear what your saying and agree. The leakage point I'm talking about is where the splines of the input shaft come out of the pipe section at the front of the bearing retainer. Oil from the transmission can get into the cavity within the bearing retainer and as said drain back into the trans by the drain hole mentioned above. However, if the trans is tipped forward a bit(I don't know what angle but not too severe)the oil can run through the bearing retainer and out of the front tube section of the bearing retainer by the splines of the input shaft. My 3 speed truck transmission looks a lot different than the picture shown above. The o.d. of the splined shaft is 1" and the i.d. of the tube section of the bearing retainer is 1-3/8". So I could fit a lip seal between the two. Doesn't look like the car transmission has enough room for a lip seal.

Mine has 4 bolts. The nuts holding the bolts are visible from the clutch end. The bolts themselves don't have hex heads but look more like a large pan or cheese head. Doesn't seem to be anyway to hold the bolt from turning as you would try to remove or torque the nuts.

Understood....with having only .020" of wear left on my clutch disc before the rivets hit the flywheel, figured I would wait to get the relined disc back from Tennessee Clutch and see the distance from the face to the rivet heads. This measurement minus .020" would be the distance the springs are moved back from the bolts with the new disc. If it is only .007" as I suspect it might be, will probably attack the flywheel mounting bolts with a 4" angle grinder and grind a minimum of .025" off them. This would give .005" clearance between them and the springs if and when the disc wears to the point where the rivets contact the flywheel. I'll take a good hard look at it. Maybe I'll try to remove one of the nuts and see if there is enough room between the flange of the crankshaft and the back surface of the rear main seal to push the bolt through and get it out. Looks pretty tight. Anybody have any experience with this? Doesn't seem to make sense that you would have to put the flywheel bolts in the crank flange before you load the crank into the engine block or install the rear main bearing cap.

Been a long time (late '60s)but I think I had the leak in my '50 Plymouth. After I reassembled the trans for the B1B recently,I had it tipped forward sitting on the bench and when I got back to it, it had leaked oil onto the work bench. It wasn't tipped all that far forward and the oil fill level was at the proper height when I left it. Pulled the bearing retainer, polished the trans shaft with speed cloth, got the seal and reassembled. In my P15-P25 shop manual it addresses this problem under "Leakage" in the Transmission section and even has a note in a box warning not to confuse this leak with a rear main seal leak. When my truck is not in use it is parked on a slight down-hill grade so thought it would be a good idea to try to eliminate the leak.

Anybody ever done anything about the oil leak at the transmission input shaft. I'm working on the floor shift 3 speed from '49 B1B pick-up. There is no seal between the o.d. of the input shaft/drive pinion and the i.d. of the sleeve of the drive pinion bearing retainer. I measured up the od and id and found a double lip seal on Ebay for $3.00. It installed nicely. I am looking for views, pro or con, about doing this mod. Only thing I can figure is this leak was designed in to allow some oil to lube the splines of the clutch disc and shaft. I lubed mine with a swipe of lithium grease. Any thoughts?

Couldn't wait til tomorrow to check flywheel thickness. Got under the truck with my flashlight and calipers and sure enough it measured 1.103" thick. Guess that solves the problem. Will call Randall at Tennessee Clutch and advise findings and ask if he will make adjustment to raise fingers by 0.200". Let you all know how it works out. Best regards to all. Thanks

With all my measurements have determined that I would have had to raise the fingers about .2 inches also. That would have been about 1 turn of the finger adjusting nuts. When I talked to Randall at Tennessee Clutch this morning he said that sounded about right and was pretty easy to do but since he offered to do it if I sent the assembly to him, it will go in the mail tomorrow. Thanks for the dimension on the flywheel. I'm assuming it is the thickness and will check mine tomorrow. As it was I figured needed to raise the fingers .2 but didn't no why. Almost hope the flywheel is thin so will have a reason. Also may be the reason the disc springs are kissing the flywheel mounting bolts. All starting to make a little sense. Thanks for the input.

Oil strainer and tube hangs down into the oilpan plus I think there is a sheet metal baffle in the pan also.

Early this morning, as recommended above, started to try to figure out the differences there might be between the engine I have in the truck and what I should have in the truck. Googled "Mopar parts interchange" and came across a site of www.pacificautotronics.com . They have an interchange book that can be downloaded for free....could be useful to others on this site. Someone more computer saavy than me might know how to download it to the Technical section of this site. Book verifies that the LP6 engine prefix applies to a LP1 catalog number 6 cyl. car that was the 1958 model year. By then it was 9am and I gave a call to Tennessee clutch as recommended. Talked with Randall and explained my 3" freeplay problem. He thought there was a longer throwout bearing sleeve that would straighten out my situation. Located one in his shop but after seeing it was convinced it would be way too long. So instead he agreed my clutch disc needed to be relined, that with .020" to rivet heads it was time. As stated above the thicker disc will move the springs back from the flywheel mounting bolts but increase the pedal free play. If I packaged up the clutch assy also he would go over it and set the fingers to spec for the truck. All this plus a new throwout bearing, pilot bearing and alignment tool for $75.00. Sounds like a deal to me as I was prepared to buy a new throwout bearing alone for $30-$35. This clutch project will be on hold until I get the clutch parts back. I received my carb overhaul kit yesterday so that will be next. The accelerator pump circuit doesn't seem to be working.

OK guys....internet says Plymouth engine number with a "LP6" prefix came out of a 1958 Plymouth Plaza, Savoy, or Belvedere and was a 230 cu.in engine. Can any one here verify this and tell me if the 11" dia. clutch was supplied on any of those vehicles?

Clutch disc is installed with the side marked "flywheel side" facing the flywheel. As far as flywheel and bolts being swapped....I don't remember/know. Back in the mid '70s I took a rebuilt engine out of a 1948 Plymouth and put it in this truck. I don't remember all the parts that had to be switched out to get the Plymouth engine to fit in the B1B. I'm thinking probably the oil pan but not sure about flywheel, clutch, and/or bell housing. I'm not even sure the actual '48 engine was rebuilt or if another rebuilt engine from something else was put in the '48 body. Right now the engine number pad is so rusted I can't make out anything on it. I did find a piece of paper within the pages of my old Plymouth manual that stated "Engine No. on '48 Plymouth---LP6(STAR) 48283. Is there somewhere that can figure out what this engine was originally installed in? So from the time of the engine swap to just recently the truck has been sitting. Every 4 or 5 years I would get the engine running but nothing more that that. So here we are, almost 40 years later and I'm trying to get it to the point where I can put some antique tags on it and maybe drive it once in awhile and maybe in a parade or two.

OK guys, a few more questions: Anyone seen a new clutch disc lately? If so what would be your guess for the depth from the friction surface down to the rivet head? Pulled my trans, clutch and disc today and inspection of the disc showed shiny surfaces on the coils of the springs sandwiched in the disc hub. They are rubbing on the ends of the bolts and nuts that hold the flywheel on. Only time I've seen this before was on a '64 Plymouth Valiant that needed the clutch and disc replaced. Reason for my question is that as far as I can figure my disc has only had .007" wear on each side and I have about .020" depth to get to the rivet heads so I figured it was OK to reinstall. Another issue is that my B1 series manual in the "Engine" section looks like it shows the bolts for the flywheel coming through and threaded into the flywheel with no nuts but lock washers under the heads of the bolt. Note that the heads of the bolts are between the flywheel and the engine. However, in the "Clutch" section it shows studs (no hex head) installed from the clutch side with nuts and lock washers between the flywheel and the engine. Anybody with a parts manual able to tell which way the bolts should be on a B1B? If the clutch disc is within specs looks like the flywheel mounting bolts may be in backwards. Flipping them around looks like it would be a pain....seems like once I got the nuts off there wouldn't be enough room between the flywheel and the engine to slide the bolt back towards the engine and pivot out. Any thoughts. The springs rubbing the bolts probably causing the clutch not to release fully but I still have the problem of the 3" free play at the clutch pedal.

To all: first I would like to thank you all for your interest and patience with me and dealing with my situation. It really is quite amazing to be able to ask a question and get knowledgeable responses from all over the US and even half way around the world from Australia. I have technical questions about computers and this site in particular. How do I post pictures in a reply and how do I edit a reply I have already posted. Because I'm not very computer savvy people around here refer to me as "Urban Amish".(no offense intended). Not sure if that is just a Pennsylvania thing or if it is also used in other parts of the country/world. Thanks again all.

Keven....that would be great. I'll be under my truck tomorrow morning...wait a minute, it's already tomorrow morning...i'll be under the truck when the sun comes up. Truck is on jack stands with tires just clearing ground and might be too low to get in and get photos but will try. Will definitely be able to take measurements of distances between the face of the throw bearing and the fingers of the pressure plate assembly. Do you have a B1 series shop manual? If so, does it look like there are washers between the shift forks and the throwout bearing sleeve in Fig.5 on page 90 showing a cross section of a typical 4 finger clutch (11,12,13 inch)?

B1B Keven....that's great to hear. Have you ever done a clutch replacement? Do you have any trouble with adjusting your clutch? About how much clutch pedal free-play do you have? Is it your daily driver or does it have a good amount of time just sitting. Would you be willing to drop your clutch insection pan and take some photos or just eyeball some measurements? Sure wish you were closer.

Dodgeb4ya....my set up is like the pictures you included on a previous post....looks like a stud coming down from the bell housing that the return spring hooks to and then the spring hooks into the hole on the throwout bearing sleeve. Am I missing something?

Thanks Desotodav it is very similar. My problem is with the adjustment all the way to on end I have about 3" of pedal free play before the throwout bearing contacts the clutch fingers. But taking a close look at the parts book page you attached I see some parts I don't recognize on my B1B. In the picture they look like they are between shift fork and the throwout bearing/sleeve and they are called out as "clip, washer, and screw" and all labeled as 6-20-17. Anybody with a US parts book show these items. Maybe that's what I'm missing because if it is somekind of clip that fastens to the forks or the ears of the sleeve, between the two, it could make up for the excessive distance I have between the face of the throwout bearing and the clutch fingers.

Here's my thinking: I think the only thing I have that may be out of spec is the 11 diameter clutch in a B1B. Doesn't seem as it is very common in a B1B but was standard on larger trucks. Maybe the finger setting is correct for the larger tonnage trucks but is not correct for the 1/2 ton B1B. So while I have it out will see if the adjusting nuts can be "unpeened" and all the adjusting nuts turned. If can do this will mock-up the fixture and use a proper thickness spacer to simulate a new disc. Will then adjust the fingers to a proper height to give me the 1" pedal free play. Once I get the new throwout bearing will install it all back into the truck and see how it works. If all OK will then rotate the flywheel by hand and peen the locknuts in place. If I can't get the locknuts "unpeened" and to turn will then go to the expense of sending it all as a core for replacement but if it is something I can get to work and avoid the expense then that leaves me $$$$ to spend on the other parts needed that I know will have to replaced (all brake cylinders, brake tubes, hoses , fittings, master cyl. kit, shoes and socks. Shel bizzy 48:Note that the truck does not have a clutch linkage rod/fork rod as found in the cars but rather the clutch pedal goes thru the floor and is connected to a jackshaft that has the throwout bearing forks on it.

OK... I know I need a new throwout bearing...will order it Monday. Convinced from above posts with included photos that I have the correct throwout bearing and sleeve. Have checked clutch linkage and all seems to be good. Since have to remove trans to replace throwout bearing will take a bunch of measurements: pedal travel vs. throwout bearing travel, clutch finger travel between engaged and released., etc. When the trans is out will also drop the clutch and disc and try to mock up the fixture C-585 shown in my P15-P25 service manual. Since there is so much information in the manual on how to adjust clutch fingers I figure it was something the dealer mechanics did since they would be the ones who had the shop manuals. If I can't find the adjustment specs for the adjustment of the Borg and Beck clutch (haven't located them on the internet so far) will make a best guess using the measurements I took. That's the plan. If anyone has an 11 inch clutch in there 1/2 ton truck and would be willing to drop the clutch inspection cover for photos and or measurements I would like to hear from you.