James_Douglas

It is possible, however, with the fluid coupling and the engine at idle the fluid coupling would have to have turbine pressure on the driver vanes at idle to overcome the drag on the input shaft and main shaft. So I doubt that is the problem....But you never know... James

Don, No I have not relaxed those bolts yet. Are they not "fixed" in length by the tubes inside... I talked with George and he said shorten the selector shaft rod (the long one) an other 1/8 inch and try it. So, I am headed down to the garage and will take another 1/8" out. While I am at it, I will double check the clutch fork slop and loosen the rear mount bolts. Best, James

I have been at it for hours and the thing does not want to go into Reverse and 1st gear without trouble. I spent 3 hours under the car. What I did was use tape and put the column shifter at 3 O'clock and I pulled it out as if going into Reverse or Low. I then set the length of the rail selector rod with the lever on the transmission full forward and past the dentet at its stop. I then fit the gear selector rod so that it drops nice into the hole. When at rest, I can get into reverse and low but it is a little rough. Once running, I can feel the syncros spinning when I try to get it into gear. The clutch is all the way in. I tried double checking the clutch and it has that famous 5/16 of free play at the end of the clutch fork. So, can anyone tell me what the heck is going on ? James

and a slice of humble pie for desert....

Pete, The "best" way to do it is to mic the pin and then take the spindle and the pin to the machine shop. They can use their power hone (usually the same one they use to do rod bushings) to hone the spindle bushings. You get a MUCH better fit and their hone is long enough to get everything well centered. A proper reamer is the original was to do it and can make for a very good job. BUT ONLY if the person uses the correct reamer and knows how to use it. Best, James

Well, I ran the Desoto today. Below are The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: THE GOOD: The car drove in all gears and shifted into OD at about 27-30 MPH. The total gearing in 2nd gear (fast 2nd with 4.11 rear) “feels” very good in the LWB Desoto. It is a little numerically lower than the M-5 - 3rd gear (low gear in M-5 Trans High Range) and somewhat numerically higher than the M-5 - 2nd gear (M-5 Low Range top gear). Using the 2nd gear I could take off on moderate hills ok without problem. I think that Fillmore Street or some of the other extreme San Francisco hills will require 1st gear. But it did in any event with the old M-5. When out on the city boulevards I could use 2nd gear up to about 30 MPH and then just let off the gas and it would shift to OD. Very much like the M-5, but the shift was faster and much more crisp than the M-5. When I would roll up to a stop sign, it would down shift and be ready to take off. I am assuming that it down shifted at or about 25 MPH. I did not have an opportunity to see if the throttle kick down was working as it is a very nice Sunday here and the world is out on the streets today. In 3rd over at 45 MPH the engine was almost at idle… With the #2 fluid coupling, NOS pressure plate, and properly lined clutch the thing runs very smooth once you are rolling. I am still having that vibration at idle in gear, stopped, and on the coupling. But, it feels different. I am starting to wonder if I had 2 vibrations. One from the old fluid coupling and perhaps one from the new (rear ?) motor mounts. Someone suggested that the rear mount bolts be loosened. I may try that. ******************* THE BAD: Last nigh when I tried the new trans up on blocks, I could not get reverse and low gear. I called George and he laughed and said my selector shaft linkage was too long. That’s the spring loaded one. He said that there is a “dentent” at the extreme forward throw of the trans lever. That needs to be engaged to move the selector rail and make the shift lever work on low and reverse. So I shorted it up and got reverse and 1st gear. The shifter linkage feels way too stiff still, particularly when I try to get it into Reverse and Low gear. I took off in 1st gear from my garage during the first run around the block. It was a little stiff getting it into gear, but it went in. I always shift into second gear before trying first gear. After a long test drive with a buddy, we took Sondra to lunch. I tried to shift into first twice at a dead stop and the thing did not want to go into gear. Sounds of gear grinding were not fun. I did get it into 1st gear, then 2nd and then when I stopped to park for lunch, I tried it again and got a grinding…at that moment I lost the linkage. After lunch I got under the car and the keeper on the linkage for the gear selector was off and no place to be seen. I put the linkage back into the hole and managed to get reverse and 2nd and get it home. I don’t know why 1st gear, which I used when I first tried the car down the street 2 hours earlier did not want to go into gear. It may be a linkage issue. I will work on it tomorrow. I think the gear selector rod may be binding a bit. I think I may change the end over to a studded aircraft spherical joint. That way, I will not worry about clips or cotter pins failing out. *********************** THE UGLY: On the way home, I noted that the amp gauge was not showing anything. It was like the battery was disconnected or something. But the engine was running fine. I thought humm, the alternator? I drove home and starting playing with it. At one point, I had the engine running, with every accessory on and the AMP gauge just stayed in the middle…Then the entire system was dead. Just like the battery was disconnected. Then we started running down circuits with the fluke tester and the entire system was showing voltage all the way up to the starter switch. So I tried starting it and up it fired up just fine. The accessories worked fine as well. Hummm... Now, I am using a Bussmann 60 AMP waterproof DC circuit breaker. Keep in mind that this is the first day I have driven this can since last falls new engine and firewall forward wiring on a day when the ambient temperature was above 80 degrees. I just looked up on the internet the full graph on this breaker and between 75F and 200F the thing loosed 50% of it rating at 12 volts. It did not seem to trip, although I manually tripped it and re-set it a couple of times. It may be that the thing was acting up. It could also be something else… I think I will change it out for a bladed fusible link. Well, that’s it for today. The maiden voyage / shake down of the 3-speed with overdrive is done and now the to-do list is ready to take care of the bugs. Best, James

We have got to get you a hobby!

Hey folks, I was just under the car running wires for the new OD when I noticed a switch with round connectors, like the hydraulic brake high switch, high up on the drivers side about mid-transmission. It is not on George's wiring diagram. Is this a back up light switch ? Thanks, James

Pull it out and take it to a radiator shop and ask them to boil it out and fix any leaks they find... James

Vivian, You have been given some very good advice. But, I must disagree with my fellow car nuts on one pint. On an engine that has sat for a long time DO NOT try to turn the engine over. Surface rust will have formed on the cylinder walls. Any dry movement of the engine will scrape that rust and destroy what ever is left of the piston rings and bearings In addition, these cars originally had cast iron rings. Cast iron rings that are not regularly heated and cooled by running loose their ductility (springiness). So they won't seal well no matter how worn or not they are at this point. The best and cheapest way to try and save the engine for running around is to do what Pete just did to fix his bad pin bushing. First, take the side covers off and clean out the little "wells" that feed the lifters. You will know what I mean when you see them. They will be full of oil ash gray gunk sludge. Let that all go into the oil pan. Use turpentine to flush them out. Remove the oil pan and clean well. Then take off cylinder head off. With the head off, barrow a "ridge rimier" from a shop and take the little ridge off you will feel with your finger on the top of the cylinders. Fill the cylinders with transmission fluid and let it sit and drip out for a day. Set a big pan under the car to catch it. Then take some steel wool (fine) and scrub any surface rust out of the cylinders. Wipe out and get as clean as you can. Use a sharpie and label the pistons before taking them out. Now tap out the pistons from the bottom to the top. Make sure you do not mix and match the bearing caps and bearings. Number six plastic bags before you start and put them in the bag as you take each one out. When you have the pistons out inspect for cracks. If crack free then clean the pistons well and order a new set of rings. A machine shop can help measure the piston size and order the rings for you. There is a tool that attaches to a drill that will clean you cylinders for you in place and it is called a cylinder hone. A few passes up and down to de-glaze the cylinders is all that you want. Put the pistons back in after putting some oil on them and use some assembly lube on the rod bearings. Put the head back on with a new gasket. Put the oil pan pack in. Use an oilcan and spray the lifters and the camshaft as best you can, then put the side covers back on. Now, make sure the engine is full of water, no anti-freeze, add some 15w-30w engine oil, not good stuff as you will drain it soon. Get a fresh battery and with the coil wire disconnected turn the engine over for 15 second bursts with rest times of 30 seconds. Do this 4 times. Then turn the engine over for a full 60 seconds. The oil pressure gauge should show lift off of zero. Once that is done you are ready. Get a can of engine starting fluid. Give two good squirts down the carburetor. Put the coil wire back on and try to start the car. It may take 2 or 3 times with the starter fluid. (I am assuming you cleaned the fuel line out and have fresh gas and a new gas filter) If it starts, keeping an eye on the oil pressure (25-35 PSI or more) you MUST bring the engine up to about 1500 RPM and hold it there for 10 minutes for the new rings to seat. Do not change the RPM. After 10 minutes you can let it idle. At this point you are set to do the fine tuning and such. I have used this process to save a number of old engines. If the rod and main bearings are ok and the valves are not burnt you can expect the car to run good using this procedure. Run the engine for 30 minutes and drain out the oil. Put in some 20w-50w oil, the good stuff, and you are ready to roll. If you turn it over by hand or just dump oil down the cylinders and try to start it, it may well run, but in a year or less you will be pulling the engine for collapsed rings and low compression. Best of luck, James

Hi All, Getting close on my transmission swap. What oil are folks using in their 3-speeds with overdrive ? George Asche tells me to use Amsoil Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil SAE 15W-40 (AME). I don't want to have to drive a 50 mile round trip to get some and/or wait a week for it to be mail ordered. Maybe I will get some after I run it for a few hundred miles. So, for the time being, what are you folks using. I have a lot of NAPA 10w and 30w tractor fluid. Best, James

Don, I have not had much time to play with it. I Hope soon. Send me a distributor to work on ! I am playing with the thought of Tulsa.... James

I will be installing new belts, of the mid-1960's chrysler chrome big buckle type, in my Desoto soon. I talked with the folks at www.ssnake-oyl.com and although they don't have it in their catalog, they have the 1950's-1960's British sports car type eye-bolt seat belt anchors. With these I can "snap" the belts in and out. For a car show, I can take the belts out in 2 minutes. With the bench seats, I can also carry and extra set to snap in in the event that I put 3 to a seat. Best, James

Pete, Glad you have found the problem. I use Autolite 86's mine. Either you need a hotter plug or you are running a little rich. When you get it running, find someone with an engine exhaust analyzer to check it for you. James

I took a quick look here: http://www.aircare.ca/ I found this: The AirCare standards for a pre-1960 passenger car with a curb weight of 1800 kg., and an engine displacement of 4.2 litres are as follows: Driving Mode HC Standard: 473 parts per million Driving Mode CO Standard: 4.49 percent Driving Mode NOx Standard: 3520 parts per million Idle Mode HC Standard: 948 parts per million Idle Mode CO Standard: 4.70 percent I have no idea if this is high or low for our engines... James

Pete, When you pull the piston, if you don't find anything obvious, make sure to measure the piston, barrow a dial bore gauge, and note the bore dia. I once had a friend that had a noise in a cylinder and it turned out that they over-bored that cylinder. As soon as the "peaks" wore off the piston and the cylinder it started to slap and make noise. Best, James

Sounds like the vacuum advance diaphragm has died... James

Jim, 1.Take out # 1 plug. 2.Set timing to TDC. 3.Take length of rubber hose and blow into #1 cylinder if you can blow it is 180 out. If you can not blow it is TDC. 4.Have helper crank over engine and look for spark on #1. 5.If spark...Put plug back in and then put starting fluid in carb and try to start. 6.If it tries to start, but does not, then fuel is problem. James

Ok, Trans is in. Emergency brake is in. Drive shaft is cut and paint is drying. I am working on dash changes to accommodate the OD handle and electronics. I am also working on the linkage. Speaking of the linkage... I need to turn one end of the linkage 90 degrees. So, should I Cut and weld or heat and twist it to turn it 90 degrees ? Which is stronger ? Also in the spring loaded linkage arm....When the shift handle is in its down position is the spring on that rod fully under tension, 1/2 way, 3/4 or what ? Does anyone know, as like an idiot, I did not make a note of it before I pulled the bottom side off the M-5 Trans. Thanks, James

Is the "Other Arm, the one without and detent normally all the way back or all the way forward ? Since that rod is spring loaded, I assume all the way toward the rear of the car is the normal position. James

Pete, Any photos of the trans with the linkage in neutral ? james

All you 3-speed folks out there... I need to make my linkage for the 3-speed. What I do not know and have no books on is EXACTLY what is the position of the 2 arms on the transmission what it is in neutral. Since I need to cut and bend, I want to place the levers in their neutral position and the column shifter at 3 o'clock. Anyone got anything that can enlighten me on this? Thanks, James

I have to extend the e-brake cable about 8" to the tail shaft of the OD. What do folks think? 1. Get a little bar of steel and make a new clevis like the old one just longer. 2. Get a hex long nut and some steel rod and extend the cable that way. I think making the clevis longer is the better idea, just more work. Comments, Ideas? Best, James

The extra holes in this case are through the transmission case. They hit the bell housing about 1/4 of an inch inboard and slightly up from the lower set of holes in the upper bell housing. The gasket George supplied has all 6 holes in it. In this case if you stock your head up and look at the 2 holes not used all you see it the gasket up against the bell housing. What holes are talking about and what mess ? James

Gary, At this juncture if I were you and wanted to make some modifications, I would not worry about it as between myself, Don, and Pete we have most of the modification covered and all the secrets are now known. Now if we had not done, and suffered, everything we have you would be correct; stock or hot rod. So, if you want to do a slightly modified ride do not worry about it as we have your back. Best, James