James_Douglas

I can appreciate your comment. As you can see in 1979 gas started up in a big way. I was in my first year at collage and the trip from home to school got costly very fast. I did not see relative price reduction until after I was out of collage. That said, relative to wages, we were paying more for gas between 1979 and 1982 than we do now (up to 2006). The spike of the last 12 months may have gotten the adjusted price back up to the 1981 peak. I have not checked it recently however. James

Don, The car was on a road trip across the Bay. I was accelerating and the OD did not energize when I lifted out of the throttle at about 27 MPH. I leaned back into the throttle and ran it up to a little over 30 MPH and it engaged. My little voice said that was odd. I stopped for about an hour at an appointment. When I left and was heading down a boulevard on my way to the freeway the OD would not shift. I tried it several times and it would not shift. I stopped and pulled the cable out, thus locking out the OD, and drove the car home. I preceded to run the tests in both the Chrysler Books and the BW books. Everything checked out OK. The last step in one of the books was to take the cap off of the SOL and inspect it. When I did that I had bits fall out on my chest, the thing smelled of burning, and the mail contact point was melted away. George said to me, when I called, that sometimes the points stick and that happens. He sent another SOL and I put it in. As soon as the car hits 27 MPH and the Governor grounds and makes the circuit complete, the fuse on the relay burns out. I bench tested the SOL the only way I can by powering it via a battery on the bench. With chassis grounded and 6V added to #4 connection the shaft comes out. I have no spec's on testing it under a load to see how much current it is drawing. If I connect the SOL to the wiring and hold it in my hand at the fender and put current to it via the relay the 30 AMP fuse blows. So, I say to myself if the SOL will work on the bench directly but not powered off the relay the relay must be bad. Since I can not get a relay over the weekend, I say heck, I will build that Studebaker replacement circuit as I want to use the shifter kick down anyway and not the throttle one. I build it and I get the exact same behavior. PS, I took out Georges toggle switch a long time back, just to not muddy the waters. ******** Although it is costing me about $350, I have NOS Autolite Relay and a NO®S Solenoid on its way. Between now and then I am going to re-build the wiring harness from scratch using the best automotive cross-linked wire money can buy. Every circuit will get a resistance test and logged. I will run a BIG DC motor with the primary wires for 30 Minutes to make sure they are OK. Then we will see what happens. On this point about George. It does not matter if he has built a hundred of them. You only find out about customer service when something is going wrong and his tone on the phone has been one of someone who is acting a little clueless. If he has built dozens of these things then he should KNOW every little problem that can creep up after years of experience with them. CYA comments as opposed to some comments like "let me think about it over night and I will call YOU tomorrow" would be more encouraging after spending $1800 with him. The final point. The thing worked for 3 weeks then failed. I had to have the wiring correct or it would not have worked. Something I was sold lasted only 3 weeks. The replacement part will not work. Now I am spending $350 on emergency parts to get the thing going...if that fixes it. Best, James

In my odd way I agree with you in many respects. See my rant in an thread a few weeks back as it ties in direct to this one. http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?p=26872#post26872 Also, gas prices have just started to come back up, past 1950's prices, in the last 3 years when adjusted for inflation (wages). Best, James

Well, After 2 days of rewiring to use modern relay's in place of the original style relays, guess what ? When the car hits 27 MPH and the governor closes the circuit and the power flows to the solenoid (That would be the replacement that George sent) the fuse (30AMP) blows. Absolutely no difference between the old relay and the modern ones. The only possibility I can think of left are: 1. The replacement SOL George sent will "pop" out the shaft on a bench test, but under a real load is drawing too much current and blowing the fuse. 2. The Pawl that the solenoid pushes in is not moving and thus causing the solenoid to draw too much current and blowing the fuse. If this is the case then the unit has to come out of the car at the cost of 2 weeks of my time or a lot of money to pay a shop here in SF to do it. What really is making me upset is my support from George, who sold me this unit. When I call him, the response I get is things like "well, I have sold 15 units in the last year and....". Or he says, "Well it worked for 3 weeks so it was nothing we did here....". I spent $1800 on his stuff plus $200 on drive shafts and $100 on miscellaneous and 3 weeks work on my back and I have crap to show for it. The thing worked for 3 weeks and then failed. This is going to get ugly as I am pissed off and tired of this do-do. James

Thank you for the thought. I have most every manual both Chrysler and BW put out on these units. James

The ORIGINAL BW-overdrive relay replacement is between $60 and $100 depending on were you get one. AN NOS one on eBay can go as high as $175. Of course, if you read the entire thread and not just the last entry.... James

I will in a few days...james

Frank, It does not matter which fuse I put in. I have a pile of 20 AMP and 30 AMP burned out fuses on my bench. The 30 AMP just blow "harder" as in the glass broken than the 20's. I am in the middle of doing the cutting and soldering to try the Stude modern relay version. Since I can't order a new relay until Monday, I figure why not give it a go. It costs about $20 for the stuff at radio shack vs. $75 for the replacement one. On the bright side, the work to convert the fan to the flex-o-lite nylon one worked out well and it pulls a lot of air at idle. The thing also is about 10% the weight of the metal factory fan. Best, James

Don, I know, It makes no sense what so ever. Many years ago I had something similar happen in an amplifier. Under regular testing everything showed fine on one circuit. Once it had to carry some real current, it would cause a ground. I found a schematic from the Studebaker folks that shows how to replace all the original relay and kick down switch with 2 radio shack relays that cost about $15. I am going to try this and see what I get. James http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/transmission/BW-OD/ODrlyrep.html I wanted to talk with the Mr. Godel and dropped a line to the Studebaker guys and was told he is dead. here is the info on the designer of this circuit. http://www.wcacastronomy.org/carlogodel.html

Ok, So we pull the solenoid and and drag it up onto the fender. We run a wire from the wire connection under the car to the #4 post. We also add a ground the SOL. Our working theory is that the Pawl is not going in and this the SOL is on high current coil too long and blowing the fuse. We figure that if we pull it and test it allowing the shaft to move, that the high current points in the main coil will cut out and we will not pop a fuse. Of course if we are correct the trans will have to come out. We try it and the SOL does not work, and it blows the fuse. Hummm..... Ok, so whats up. A bad # 2 SOL ? We drag the SOL over to the bench and cut 2 short #10 wires (BTW The SOL wire in the car is #10 not #12 as I reported before) and tried it on the battery. SOL works. Hummm.... We check the resistance in the wire feeding the SOL. Check out just fine. So, we wire the SOL back up on the fender and ground it to the alternator arm which is direct to the BAT cable. We round the Governor lead on the relay which energizes the SOL terminal on the relay. We then jump direct from that SOL terminal to the #4 post on the SOL and it blows the fuse. We jump the #4 direct to the battery and the SOL works. Although the relay passes all static tests, it can not handle passing the current to the SOL without burning the fuse. The real question is why ? Time to ponder and have a drink. Boy am I glad I did not decide to make a run for Tulsa. It would have killed my wallet, hearing, and engine to drive at 60 MPH in 3rd gear with a 4.11 read end for a thousand miles or more. James

Two days same problem. We pulled all, the new, wiring and checked every wire. No problems. We bench tested the kick down switch for problems. Check OK. We bench tested the Relay. Problem with very fine wire going from relay coil terminal to coil chassis. Fixed. No change and may have melted that hair thick relay coil wire, but did not open it back up to check. We used 15, 20, and 30 AMP fuses. I have a pile of them fried on my bench. The governor kicks in, the fuse blows. Every time. We disconnected the SOL wire from the fuse, and run the #1 check in the book. The relay clicks. We ground the wire for the Govenor, as in the book, and the thelay turns on the connector to the SOL. I touch the wire to the SOL for maybe 1 seconds and you hear it try to energize. I left for maybe 2 seconds and then try it blows at the 1 or 2 second point. What is going on is that the SOL is trying to draw too much current. This is the SOL that George sent me. How do you check the SOL to see if it is trying to draw too much current ? Thanks, James PS The wire to the SOL is a 12 GA and does not appear to get warm at all.

If the rims are in very good condition on the inside and out, then you should be fine. You may have to run a radial tube as the hot rivets can leak air. James

Norm, I don't have any drag on my front disks after a good hard application. I tried it in the garage today, after reading your note, and when I release it, both sides spin free. James

I am looking at it to help with heating on long mountain climbs or very bad and hot stop & go. Not looking for millage increase or HP increase, just cooling. James

So, The replacement OD solenoid from George shows up. I install it. I head down the street and it does not shift. I figure, oh S$!T, it fried the replacement solenoid. No, it just blew the fuse on the relay. I replace the fuse and try it again. Fired fuse. Hummmmmmm... Ok, So I say lets take the solenoid wire off the relay and go for a ride. If the problem is inside the relay then it should kill the fuse when the governor grounds and activates the relay. Fuse is fine. Hummm..... Ok, maybe it is the normally open wires on the kick down switch. I take them off and tape them over and try it. Blows the fuse. Not that. The lockout switch only prevents the relay from working so I doubt that is it. I took the cover off of the solenoid and checked the main points and it looked fine, no melting away. I check all the wires, hand over hand, and I can see no breaks in the system. Anyone have any ideas as I am at a loss ? James

All done and working. Pulls a LOT of air at idle. Will have to take it someplace hot and sit in traffic to see how much, if any , improvement. James

Anyone have any experience with water/alcohol injection ? James

Please note the issue of the MC being BELOW the calipers... " The two pound valve is used in disc brake applications where the master cylinder is mounted below the horizontal plane of the calipers and fluid drain back occurs from gravity and vibration, thereby causing excessive caliper piston retraction and a longer brake pedal stroke. The minimal two pound residual pressure prevents fluid from flowing back without causing the brakes to drag. With drum brakes, a ten pound valve is used to compensate for return spring tension in the drums." ---Wilwood Engineering. Most of the cars on this forum have low mounted MC's. As I said in my first post, you don't need all that stuff, but the system built will not be optimum. Best, James

Don, Over the last month I have had the car in some heat and in traffic. It is starting to warm up. I put the steel fan back on and it helped at idle in traffic. I hate the boat anchor of a steel fan. it no doubt eats up a little HP and I have little to spare. Not to mention the water pump bushings. The electric fan on 6V pulls about 15 AMPS, which at idle if the radio is on can pull the voltage dangerously low as far as the coil is concerned. So, that is what this is about. Everything looks good, except I would have to pull the radiator to get the fan off. James

Good to go on the belt...

Tod, Very good point. Down to the grage to see if that small belt can be pulled around the fan! If that works, then I am not worried about the water pump. If I have to change it, I have to break loose the water system anyhow to drain the radiator will happen anyway. If the water pump goes, good time to change the large hoses as well... Of to the garage...Tod, see brake question... James

I used the "take 50%" approach and it came out very very nice. With a WELL centered & cut drum, getting the shoes to adjust up well is much easier. Like night and day. The perfect drum, perfectly arced shoes, using the 1750, and having very high quality linings (softer) made everything work like a charm. James

I had a machine shop make me an adaptor that will allow the use of an aggressive at idle Flex-o-Lite nylon cooling fan. This fan is 10% the weight of the original steel fan, has more blades, and flattens out at upper RPM so it is not trying to pull as much air at highway speed. The dilemma is that the front this fan is flat from the tip through the center to the other tip. As such, I would have to pull the radiator to get the fan bolts on and off. It is only 1/8 closer to the radiator than the stock fan, I can get my fingers between the fan blades and the radiator so I think I have about 3/8 to ½ inch clearance. Does anyone think that having a set up by which I have to pull the radiator to get to the fan is asking for trouble? Best, James

James, See the photo for my set up. I had ECI custom make a set of front disks. My Desoto is like the Chrysler 8 and has huge hubs. I did my tubing & valving by the book. 1. I use a RED 10# residual valve on the rear for the drum brakes. 2. I use a BLUE 2# residual valve on the front disk brakes. 3. I use a metering valve on the line to the front brakes. 4. I use an adjustable proportioning valve on the line to the rear brakes. Not everyone uses all the above. You can get away without the metering valve and the proportioning valve. HOWEVER, any disk/drum system without them is not going to function optimally. (I don't care what anyone says, you just wrong on this one if you think otherwise.) In my case the car is heavy and can seat 9 people so I wanted that last little bit of optimization in my braking. If the auto companies did not think the stuff was not necessary they would have surly dropped it from every disk/drum car they make to save money. All of them us them, built into a single valve called a combination valve. Best, James

Tod, I have a brake shoe grinder in my garage...I also know of a guy that has a VERY good drum lathe and grinder up near Penngrove. He cut my drums, provided very good quality lining (not too hard) riveted on shoes, arced the linings and it ran $140 for two. It is a little more $$ than the cheep stuff, but in a few hours I will see if the extra time & $$ is worth it. Best, James PS. Moose Motors Obsolete Brake Parts, (707) 792-9985