James_Douglas

It is their car and they can do to it what they please. That said I think it is a shame to cut up a good car and would urge the owner to sell it and spend the money on a "better" candidate for a hot rod job. The interesting thing about this topic however is the current state of cars here in California. A full review of the old car licensing programs is going to start soon. I have heard strong whispers that the air quality people want to make all classic cars move to a classic license plate program. It is also being whispered that once that happens then they will put restrictions on the driving of such vehicles. It is also whispered that cars that clearly are not close to original will not be allowed to be registered as classics and will have to pass a smog test. Given that the above whispers may well come to pass as reality in the next 10 years, I for one will not do anything to a classic car that cannot be quickly switched back. If any of the whispers come true, a modified car will only be worth its parts value. It pays to think ahead these days if one wants to severely modify a classic car. James

Ok, The bearing with the groove is the front one. When on the input shaft, it slides into the case from the inside and stops at the ring. I assume that the shield is on the opposite side from the ring groove. The center one sits in the cast center housing, one side against the cast and one against the gears so I see no use for a shield on this bearing. The rear bearing of your and mine has a shield on the back side. I assume that some amount of oil must get past the shield or the rear seal would cook on a dry shaft. Jim, thanks very much. Once I get new good numbers on the bearings, I will post them for all. Best, James

Jim, Bearing number 3, on the far right in the photo, is the front bearing which has the ring groove in it... From the photo it does NOT have one side sealed, like the rear bearing, and so is open on both sides. Is this last sentence correct ? There is a drain back hole in the input shaft housing and a hole in the trans case that the service manual tells to to make sure you line up. Therefore, I am assuming that they expect oil to flow past the bearing into the housing and then back into the case. The GA supplied bearing on the front has a full shield on the front and so the reason for my question. Best, James

Jim, Exactly what I needed! Thanks, James

Hi Guys, I have a 1955 source Chrysler factory part numbers. Bill thanks,...only one of your three numbers is the same as the MOPAR numbers in the manual I have on my desk. Got to love it ! What I am looking for is the bearing maker (BCA, Temkin, SKF, other) and their part number from a set of "known" orginal bearings. One of my bearings has a shield, however, since the unit was torn down and "rebuilt" with "new heavy duty bearings" I have no way of knowing what the original bearings in these units are. Assuming the bearings in my unit are correct, and I cannot be sure of that, I would like to identify by original bearing maker numbers the correct bearings. I will then proceed to secure new bearings. Thanks for the help, James

It appears that one of the bearings on my transmission has a bad spot on it. That is the consensus of a repair person I trust as well as two bearing houses. I am looking for anyone that has photos of the original bearings in a 3-speed and/or overdrive units. The 3 speed with OD has three large bearing in it. What I am looking for is the bearing numbers as well as if one side has a splash plate or full shield. Unfortunately the factory part numbers do not reference to any of the bearing suppliers numbers. Industrial archeology is a big part of what we are all doing on this forum, I hope that someone can help me out here. Thanks, James

To me the entire story turns on what the definition of rebuilt means. I thought that I was getting a unit that was checked against the specifications of the factory service manual. Even if the OD had worked every time, I would not have been happy to see that so many parts were either beyond the service manual recommendations or right on the outer boundary of them. This story would have a different meaning if NOS replacement parts were generally not available or if they cost a fortune. But that is simply just not the case. In a week I was able to locate 75% parts in the unit as NOS. I even found a NOS case. Now, I don't need to replace everything, but I will replace those items as recommended by the factory service manual. By beef with the vendor is that by my understanding of the term rebuilt, they should have replaced those parts. Or at a minimum, called me and asked if I wanted them replaced. Not following the factory service manual as a baseline and/or not talking with the customer if choosing not to follow those standards is in my opinion not delivering what was promised. James

I suggest that you read the archives on this subject prior to making comments. I think George Asche is a wonderful information resource about our engines and transmissions. However, in this particular case I did not get what I expected. Had I known what would be delivered , I would have just purchased a core and did the rebuild myself or used the M6 and a Gear Vendors OD unit. There is plenty in the archives detailing what is not working as expected. I specifically stated when talking to George, and ordering the unit, that I was willing to pay a premium to have it done once and done correct. Either George did not understand what I wanted and/or did not care and just did what he always does. In either case, it was not what I was looking for and what was delivered is not functioning correctly. He was in fact willing to have me ship the unit back to him, however, I cannot have this particular car down for several months while shipping the transmission across the US at this time. Other than shipping it back, George would not provide another unit in its place so that I could swap it out and not have the car down for months. I think that is poor customer service, however I am the one who cannot wait on cross country shipment and so the decision to not send it back is mine. The test transmission that was secured locally has worked fine for a month and therefore clearly shows that the OD unit on the Asche transmission has a problem so I tore it down over the last two weeks. I found a number of items that the MOPAR service manual says should have bee replaced or dressed. Again, if anyone wants to go into the details, just give me a ring on the phone and I would be glad to go into specifics. On a personal note, I find it a little ironic on the outpouring of support for someone loosing 2 or 3 hundred dollars on parts not sent, yet I am somewhat vilified when I complain about receiving a $2000 door stop of a transmission. Sometimes these forums are just amazing. James

Send me a photo & the owners name...James

I have completed tearing down and inspecting every component of the 3-speed with overdrive I purchased from Geroge Asche. I found a number of very interesting things in both the transmission and the overdrive. In my personal opinion what I received for my approximately $1700 was a somewhat working core, but not anything close to what in my opinion is a "rebuilt" transmission. In order to make the Asche transmission fit for my needs, I will be replacing approximately 40% of the internal parts so they equal or exceed the directives in the MOPAR factory service manuls I have on hand. Anyone who wishes to discuss my findings in detail can send me a PM and I will give you my phone number. You can call and I would be glad to discuss the 19 items of concern in my findings. Best, James

One can always pull the cable out...In my case the front disk brakes help with the fade issue.... James

Thinking ahead a couple of steps...If you need to get a busing out... Get a wood-screw stud. The kind that has a wood screw on one end and a machine screw on the other. Get one that the machine screw side will screw into the end of a slide hammer (use a coupling nut). The screw the thing into the bushing until it bites and side hammer it out. I had one years ago that was bitch to get out and an old timer showed me this way to do it. I would do what norm said AFTER removing the bushing. When the trans is in place and the tip is sticking into the crankshaft, use a black marker and mark trans shaft where it enters the crankshaft flange. When you pull it out, you can then measure the depth of the hole in the crankshaft and can calculate the exact max bushing length. Best, James

I young friend who has a 1955 Desoto let me barrow the transmission section of his factory service to make a copy. It has a combined section on the 3-speed and overdrive. While reading it the other day, I noticed the following: Section 12. Use of Clutch Pedal : At speeds below the overdrive cut-in point, the free wheeling action of the overdrive unit makes it possible to do all the gear shifting without releasing the main clutch. Above the cut-in speed, it is necessary to release the clutch for shifting gears. Like wise, the clutch must be released when the car is being started from a standstill, and whenever it is being brought to a stop. [ James Note: of course that last sentence does not apply to use with a fluid coupling] I was VERY hesitant of trying it. But, since I am running on a test transmission, I figured why not. So off the block I go...I took off on 2nd gear and when I got to about 20 MPH and noted that the governor for the OD solenoid had NOT made contact, I pulled down into 3rd gear. It went in without trouble. I can up to a stop sign and as I was rolling up to the stop, I shifted it down to 2nd gear. No problem. With a fluid coupling and the OD in freewheel mode it is like "the kids" manual shifting their automatics. Way cool! James

Howard, A very impressive project. Any chance that the builder made a template of the combination AC-Alternator brackets so that we could have him build another one if someone wanted one ? Best, James

Bill, Thanks..I called but you must have been out. That is really interesting about the "interlock plunger". I had no idea that there were different lengths. The question then becomes, how do you figure out what length to use ? Very very interesting! James

Frank, I was wondering were you we hiding... I just drove around town today in some of the hill sections and the second gear with the 1.83 ratio is a lot better on the hills than the 1.55 gear. Here is a little chart of the second gear choices: 1. Manual normal second gear ratio 1.83, rear-end 4.11, overall 7.52. 2. Manual "fast" second gear ratio 1.55, rear-end 4.11, overall 6.37. 3. M6 Semi-Auto (aka Tip-toe-Shift) ratio 2.04, rear-end 4.11, overall 8.38. You can see that when Chrylser and Desoto fitted the M6, which all had fluid drive, they bumped up the 2nd gear ratio a LOT. No doubt to make up for the fact that the turbine on the fluid couplings slip a bit until they hit about 5 MPH. peple should keep in mind that the fluid coupling does not have a stator like a torque converter so there is not torque multiplication like a modern automatic between zero and 5 MPH. Also it is interesting to note that the M6 used a 3.57 1st gear ratio and the 3-speed uses a 2.57 ! that is a big difference. Therefore, using the "fast second gear" in the larger cars and/or the fluid drive cars is not necessaraly a good thing. Best, James

Can anyone with a master parts book from the 1950's send me the part numbers for the two following overdrive parts? 1. Balk Ring 2. Sun Gear Control Plate. Thanks, James

I think he means the temp pins in lace of the bolts to get the trans to line up... I have to get mine started and use very long bolts to get the thing in. Way to snug for my liking but once in worked fine both times I did it... I dont think the Pilot is any different, but I am not totally sure... James

I will be around....James

Pat, I have tried to do that. But for some reason it does not want to drop into gear. It may have something to do with the freewheel nature of the OD unit. I may try it with the cable lcoking out the OD and see if it will go. James

Greg, The problem is that there is a lot of "stop and go" here that is really slow down to 3 or 4 MPH and then go. I have stopped to shift into first, but people get rather pissed off at that... You are correct with the OD the ratio goes much lower. I have found that with the standard 2nd gear the revs vs. MPH are good for a 2nd gear shift to OD, but only on flat or slight down grade. On any hill, and everything here is up or down, by the time I hit the MPH for the OD to activate I may as well shift into 3rd gear. One thing I have noted from the literature is that the governor was set between 20 to 32 MPH depending on the car. I think in my case if I can modify a governor to kick in about 3 or 4 MPH lower it would be a better match to my car. James

The best way to look at the second gear choices is to approach the issue from the perspective of which gear is normally used from a dead stop and what is the overall final drive ratio in that gear. In my case, I use second gear from a dead stop 99% of the time. First gear is only really usable for very steep hill starts or for towing something really heavy. Also, my column shift makes it very hard to double clutch so I have to be at a dead stop to get the car into first gear in any account. The factors that affect the choice of second gear are the cars weight, the HP available, and the type of transmission be it pure clutch, wet clutch, or full automatic with a torque converter. For the purposes of discussion on this forum, I will assume that we are going to be talking about a pure clutch or a wet clutch (aka “Fluid Drive). I am also assuming most of us are running flathead sixes with no more than 120 HP. In my particular case, I have a heavy car, a wet clutch, and hills to deal with. I have used the so-called fast 2nd gear for a year now and have noted that the acceleration in my heavy car with a wet clutch is lacking. I also have 4.11 final drive gears. Since testing the spare transmission, for OD issues, I have noted that the standard 2nd gear accelerates my heavy car much better from a dead stop in the environment it is driven in. So let review the gearing numbers: Standard Second gear is: 1.83 Fast Second gear is: 1.55 Using my particular rear end drive ratio we achieve a take-off overall gearing of: Standard Second gear is: 7.52 (1.83*4.11= 7.52) Fast Second gear is: 6.37 (1.55*4.11=6.37) Now it is instructive to note that 95% of the wet clutch (fluid drive) equipped cars came with a Semi-Automatic (M6). The second gear on these transmissions had a ratio of 2.04. So the take-off overall ratio on these cars with a 4.11 rear end was 8.38 to 1 ! There was a reason for this. The wet clutch does not multiply torque like a modern converter as it does not have a stator. Therefore, until the turbine moves from a stalled state to a lock state there is considerable power loss. This turbine locks fully at about 3 to 6 MPH. I think that is why the cars with a wet clutch (Fluid drive) were designed by MOPAR to have a numerically higher second gear. If you are running a pure clutch then you do not see the turbine losses and the fast second gear may be a good fit if your car is not one the larger ones and you are not in a hilly area or dive in dense city traffic a lot. If you are using a wet clutch (fluid drive) and/or have a heavy car, I would recommend that you stick with the 1.83 second gear. For those cars with overdrives I have a minor point for consideration. When using a BW overdrive and the fast second gear, I have found that it is nice to take off in second and let it “auto shift” into second OD. I do like this feature and miss it with the standard second gear. However, when running on second OD you are turning more gears in the transmission and adding more patristic drag. George Asche pointed this out to me. If you are driving your car a lot, given gas prices, the car experiences less transmission patristic drag by shifting into third gear. So having the regular second gear and shifting into third as a driving habit may ,over time, save you a little. That’s all folks! Have a great 4th! James

I have run the "fast second gear for a year in the Asche transmission. It is nice with the overdrive. The problem is that the car if on any incline whatsoever accelerates very slowly. This is a combination of being a 9 passenger -140 inch wheelbase car that is heavier than 99% of the MOPARS of the period. Only the Big Chrysler 8 LWB cars were any heavier and they had two more cylinders. I drive the car every day in San Francisco city traffic. For the last few weeks while determining my OD problems I have used a test transmission that has the standard 2nd gear. I must respectfully disagree with you on one point. In modern city traffic, people take off from a stop light at a much higher rate than when these cars were new. From a dead stop the standard second gear does a much better job of keeping up with the flow of traffic by dealing with the extra heavy car and the losses off the line by using fluid drive. The shift from 2nd to 3rd feel more natural now, although I miss the ability to shift from 2nd to 2nd OD and continue up to about 40 MPH. Now I have to shift into third on boulevards. In city residential streets I can use 2nd and 2nd OD. I may experiment with dropping the OD kick-in MPH and try to lower it about 3 to 6 MPH. My car could use to shift into OD a few MPH sooner. The factory books show a spread of 20 to 32 MPH depending on the car. I think a little fine tuning of OD kick-in to car weight and HP would make it even more “natural”. In a car that does not weigh as much as mine and/or one that does not use the fluid coupling --- the fast second gear is a good choice. I am just feeding back to folks that if their car is heavy and uses the fluid coupling that my opinion is that is it best to stick with the standard second gear. Best, James

I just counted the main gear teeth on my 3-speed and it is 32-25-19-14. The book shows the mid 1950's main shaft as 32-23-19-14. When I was sold a transmission with a "fast 2nd gear" did that also require a change of main gear to the 1935 to 1939 main gear set which is listed as 32-25-19-14? After driving for three weeks on the junk test transmission, I am convinced that with a large heavy car, and in particular one with fluid drive, the fast 2nd gear option is NOT the way to go unless you live in the heartland in flat open spaces and don't plan on mountain trips. In coupes and the smaller sedans it would be a nice addition, just not on the big cars or if using a fluid coupling. I have a stock 2nd gear (NOS), but do I need to hunt down a different main gear? Later today, I will tear down the OD and see what is going on. The Junk transmission has never failed to shift into overdrive. The 2nd gear in it sound like it is ready to go through the side of the case as it is making a lot of noise, but the OD is working flawlessly. I have not touched the control systems and I am using the Governor, lockout switch, and solenoid that were on the Asche supplied transmission that has not been working correctly. There is NO doubt, in my mind, that the Asche overdrive has something wrong with it. it comes aprt this afternoon. Thanks for the gear help, James

That $2500 sounds correct IF you want an original hexagonal honey comb style radiator. The cores are very expensive. A regular core and re-do is about $400 to $600 for top notch copper. James