James_Douglas

After some more digging, I am able to ID that odd flat spring in my transmission. It appears that this spring is used on Fluid Drive cars with the 3-speed stick transmissions. Its purpose is to help slow down the momentum of the fluid coupling due to its weight. This makes sense as the coupling, acting like a flywheel, is much heavier than the stock flywheel and they must have felt that they needed to get the input shaft speed down faster so you could shift. If ANYONE has one of these parts left over from a switch from a fluid dive car to a regular clutch, please let me know as I am having trouble finding one. It has three springs arms on it and the one in my car has two arm broken off (or warn away) on it and it puts an unequal side thrust on the brass stop ring. It was like this when I removed it from my rebuilt transmission. Un-equal side thrust can cause the stop ring to not properly break through the oil film and operate as designed. I have tried the usual suspects, but so far no luck. I have a complete set of new bearings and seals inbound for the 3-speed and OD unit. All new part numbers under current production. Once I get them and confirm that they fit as expected, I will post the whole things for everyone’s reference. Also, anyone hitting a auto swap meet in the next couple of weeks, look over the image and if you see a new or used one of those spreader springs, pick it up for me unless they want some fortune for it. Thanks, James

Frank, Do remember that a torque converter only adds torque to up to about 10-15 MPH and then couples the two sides like our fluid couplings. Interestingly though...modern "standard non-lock-up" converters have worse efficiency than our fluid couplings. The stator in a torque converter causes turbulence and that taken with the fact that torque converters use curved blades and you get a unit that is not as efficient as one of our old “Fluid Couplings” I have seen someplace that our fluid couplings run up to 98% to 99% efficiency at road speed. Non-lock-up converters only run at about 94% to 96%. Best, James

That may be correct. I wish he made the cast headers for the large block engine. I would buy a set in a heart beat. James

I did not like his headers and sent them back. Poor fit, poor design, and bad welding. Someone just takes an existing header, cuts off one of the four tubes to create a 3 tube header. The "signal" will bounce back and get messed up by that cut off 4th tube and render the small gain in power useless. Have a pair custom made correctly or use the originals. My 2 cents worth. James

To test the thing, just run a wire from the SOL to a toggle switch and on to the battery. Use #8 wire. Drive down the street and have someone hit the toggle switch. just DO NOT allow the thing to go backwards at any time with the switch on. That by passes all controls and tells you if the unit is working. They you can start putting in the control systems. James

Jim, Because of the way the OD works, using friction at the balking ring and torque reversal, I am not sure if the car will shift into OD on jack stands. It may or it may not, I am not sure... James

If the unit on the rear has "R10" on it it is worth it and then some. James

Jim, Sounds like something got hung up, possibly in the cage-roller-cam section of the OD. Have you ever since putting it back in had it in OD for any length of time? James

Kevin, Sounds like second gear or the 1st-reverse idle gear has a problem. Remember that when the OD cable is engaged (pushed in) that the transmission will freewheel below the cut-in speed. That is why you hear it more when the OD is locked out as the transmission gear pack is being turned by the rear wheels. James

Allan, Perfect! Just what I needed. I can see a note I think, but I cannot make it out on the bottom. Can you tell me what the note says ? Since I see the part in some places and not others I am wondering if it is used on the just the non-OD trans or only used with the OD trans. Several other MOPAR parts books do not show it. Thanks, James

Don, That is not it. Those are for the holding the cage in place onto the cam for the OD roller bearing. They are a wire spring. Mine is flat (a single sheet of paper) and made out of copper or bronze. James

No, it is shot. Look at the three "arms" that seem to be used to push the stop ring away from the synchro clutch. Two of the three arms are broken off and so it puts an off sided load on it. The odd thing is that many manuals and diagrams don't show it. It is not in the master parts book for 46-48 Deosto. I don't know if it is used just in later cars, only Plymouth used it, only in boxes with OD, or what ?

I have used Eaton Detroit Springs (Opened 1937) and have been happy with them. They make their springs and can tell you the blueprint load and rate. In the case where HD springs were offered, they can tell you the load and rate of both the standard and HD so you can pick what you want. James

In my other post with photos of the trans parts you can see the part next to the synchro ...James

Everything but that little bronze spring that I asked about in another post. I cannot even find a part number on it. James

Don't bother. I used one for a year and found that they turn very slow at idle and low MPH using 6 volts. My electrical system is as good as it gets and I even have a 6V alternator. At idle when you need the fan the most it turns too slow at 6V, so what is the point if it does not turn max air at idle. I talked to the folks a flex-a-lite. Turns out that their cheep nylon fan has a VERY aggressive blade pitch and it is only good to 5000 RPM. Perfect for one of our flatheads. I had to make an adaptor to go from our large waterpump to the new smaller style one to mount the thing, no big deal, and it is working well. best thing is it weighs nothing and no doubt will let the water pump bearing live a long time. James

If anyone wants to see the guts of a totally taken apart 3-speed with OD here it is. More detailed photos can be seen here: http://www.dacoglu.com/desotocd/11A_ThreeSpeed%20With%20Overdrive/Cleaned_And_New_Parts/ I have hi-res photos that I can email if anyone needs one. Best, James

There is quite a bit in the archives on this subject...James

Bill, Thanks, but that is not it. That is the 3 little levers that go onto the synchro cam and the wire springs. The item I am looking for the part number for is paper thin and goes between the cam and the synchro stop ring. Do you see the following 1115576 ? Thanks, James

Hi All, Ca someone with a Master Parts book for Plymouth (1950-1960) see if they can find a part number for the following: "Spreader Spring" This was used on some Plymouth and other cars in the 3-speed transmission. If goes between the Synchronization unit and the front bronze synchro gear. It is about a thick as a sheet of paper, made of copper or bronze and is tempered. It has three little arms that put pressure against the front stop ring to keep it held off the Synchro clutch. Some books show it and some do not. The one in my unit should never have been put back in as two of the three arms are missing some of their material and therefore the front stop ring was being pressed off center or off perpendicular to the main shaft. Thanks all, James

Below is what I found as to bearings in the three speed with overdrive (Borg Warner - R10). 1946 to 1958 MOPAR Three Speed with Borg Warner overdrive Bearings: __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Front, Middle, Rear OD: 2.835 (Case 2.837), 2.835 (Case 2.834), 2.441(Case 2.440) ID: 1.3775 (Shaft 1.378), 1.378 (Shaft 1.379), 1.180 (Shaft 1.180) Width: 0.666, 0.666, 0.626 Shield: Front, None, Rear Groove: Rear, None, None ****************** George Asche Unit: SKF 207-ZN 82T, BCA 1207 CP, BCA 1206 DH Jim Yergin Car: MRC 207-SFG, Federal 1207, MRC 206 Chrysler Part Number: 1505652, 1483755, 670776 BCA-Federal Mogal: 1207, 207 or 207SL, 206S ******************* NTN Recommendations: BL207ZNR, BL207, 6206Z (NTN is the Corporate successor to BCA). BL207ZNR-This bearing has a snap ring groove on the opposite side of a shield. BL207-This bearing has no groove nor any shields. 6206Z-This bearing has no groove, but has a shield on one side. ******************* OD Rear Seal: National 471827 or CR-R6-110A or TimKen 470059 (Seal Kit 5201) OD Solenoid Seal: Timken 240698 OD Roller Bearings: Timken W585Q (12 Required) Selector Shaft Seal/Man. Shaft: Timken 340797 (Repair Sleeve KWK99059) ******************** I have ordered a set of the above and will let folks know when they arrive if they all fit as expected. Best, James

Be very careful if you use your car to give someone a ride and take money for it. In most states you would need to have a comercial license, pee in a cup, and have a written maintance program. If you don't and have any kind of acident, it will get ugly. In addition, many insurance policies specifically state that the car will not be used in commercial service and they can deny any claims arising out of an aceident when you are using the car for hire. Best, James

Fran, How the heck did you set the "proper" distance as per the manual without those fancy gauges ? I did a 1954 Imperial for a friend many years ago and getting those screw type bushings in place and the control arm spacing correct without those tools was a killer. I take it you are able to work on the car as the center in in the annual calm before the storm? Remember I played computer programmer at the SFS some years ago... Best, James

One thing to keep in mind, which many folks forget, is that when you have duel carbs your venturi area goes up. When this happens the engine vacuum is sucking through a large hole. This brings up two issues: Main Metering and Idle circuit. (Since the secondaries are progressive on this carb and you spend little time at WOT, it probably does not need to be changed and in fact a little rich is not a bad thing at WAT to cool the engine and help keep it from pinging) 1.As a result of the venturi increase it is often necessary to INCREASE the size of the main metering jets. 2.If the carbs you have are running rich at idle with the idle mixture screw as far in as possible, then you would need to make the air bleeds smaller so that the air passing by the idle slot will not pull as much gas to the back side of the idle mixture screw. Not many carbs have any way to change the idle air bleeds. This one may and their is a special Holley number for a 390 -4bbl that has a body with adjustible air bleeds. In any case, I would not try to do any modifications unless you can get to someone with an engine anilizer so you can monitor the A/F ratio as you make changes. Good luck, James