Jeff Balazs

I have the rear axle from a 2002 Grand Cherokee in my 52 B-3-C. The only change needed was the spring perch location. Otherwise it fit with the original springs and drive shaft. You will need a set of wheel spacers though as it is about 3/4" narrower than the stock axle. The 12" discs work very well with the Rustyhope kit I used on the front. Jeff

Ed; I am running stock B-3-C wheels which are 15" with a 5 x 5 bolt pattern. I had several broken lug studs to begin with which are 9/16". There was nothing available to replace these in 9/16" so I used 5/8" studs all around. When I decided to fit disc brakes this resulted in a lot of extra work. It is one of the reasons I want to keep the rear axle I already have. The tire and tire profile I chose was based on experience I had with other trucks. The Goodyear Wranglers have a very nice ride quality and are readily available. One thing I was concerned about from the beginning was getting a good ride. I knew this was going to be a daily driver so this would be quite important. If you go to a lower profile tire you can't expect it to help smooth things out as much. It just doesn't work that way. I chose a 3/4 ton with the 116" WB for the same reason. Pickups with a longer WB are generally a bit smoother riding than the same basic truck with a short WB. This is especially noticeable on longer trips. Jeff Having the cake and eating it too often poses challenges. I didn't choose the easiest path down the road. Having a fluid drive as an example adds another layer to the difficulties involved with making mods. But I can't start over so I just have to figure out a way to make most of what I already have to work the best that it can.

It could be cheaper to do it that way. I would hate to disturb the braking system though as it is pretty much dialed in. I am really not sure what to do. Any of these transmission swaps are a fairly big job what with the FD and the parking brake etc.... I keep hoping to find a fix that is less involved than these we have been discussing. I would like to talk with a old time transmission specialist. There has to be someone around here that has done all sorts of swaps and maybe has another approach or solution. It certainly wouldn't hurt me to ask around. Jeff

Well..........might be a tad too tall then. My tires have a diameter of around 29"......any chance you are running something a bit smaller? That might help a little. Your truck may be lighter than my 3/4 ton too and that would help. Another thing that could help is if you don't have much in the way of grades to deal with. Mine goes pretty good on flat ground. Problem is there are lots of fairly steep hills here. One of the nearby toll roads has a long steep grade that is actually pretty tough in a fairly modern truck. I have not been in a hurry to try it in the old beast. Jeff

Hi Ed; That could make a pretty big difference in your application. I am pretty certain having a 3.55 rear axle and an OD ratio 5th gear is not going to be of any use to me. I have just enough power now to have a tiny bit of acceleration uphill now in 4th at 1 to 1. That is if I am moving at a decent clip to begin with.....like say 45Mph. Here is another thing ...I am not sure how much difference the fluid drive in my truck makes in this situation. I kind of think there is a bit of an increase in the "flywheel effect" that may offset any power loss. You can feel a slight bit of cushioning effect at tmes but in general it is hard to tell it from a standard clutch arrangement. It may actually help some in this over geared set up I have. It is really hard to say. Once up to say 55 Mph the 3.55 feels pretty decent but I just haven't had much time to really test this. Hopefully after the first of the year I will get some time to test it out during a low traffic period. Up til now all of my driving has been during peak traffic hours. Jeff

Tim; Been there ...done that. My favorite all time car to drive was a 100-6 AH that I bought for $160. I am just not a car guy anymore. The Pilothouse will have to do....and do it, it will....somehow...some way. As I have said before it has to. Last vehicle I will buy so no choice. Full set of tools and spares on board or at hand. And just the thought of calling for a tow turns my stomach. (He said after painting himself into a corner with no face to save)

Is that your next project Paul? (someone hide the wood filler from him)

John thank you again for your input. I went back through your build thread. Really first class stuff. I will have to look more at doing something like this. I would like to retain my rear axle but maybe there is a close ratio non OD version of this transmission that would do the trick for me. In order to be truly useful as a fully functional daily driver it needs to be able to accelerate up hills within the flow of traffic. If it had a 5 speed without the granny gear and 5th gear that was at 1 to1 it would in effect be quite similar to what you have built. Jeff Footnote; Looks like a T5 is not going to be an option as they are all OD from what I am seeing. That isn't going to work with my 3.55 rear axle.

Fred; I think it is because the newer stuff is too good at isolating or cushioning you from the reality of the road and traveling. They take much of the sense of adventure out of the experience. I call it travel atrophy ....... they are just too good at separating you from the journey. They are all about arriving as quick as is possible and and as unflustered as imaginable. They are so good at it most now have to have some sort of on board entertainment system to keep you occupied. My sister asked me recently why I enjoy that awful old thing. As I tried to convey the experience to her it came to me that driving one of these old trucks was more like being a pilot or operating a boat. Driving one of these keeps you completely occupied. You feel all the bumps...hear all the sounds...smell all the smells....and watch everything. And every trip has that old sense of adventure again. Make me feel like I have been given back some long lost treasure......and in a sense that is true. Jeff

Yes we will have to do that. How does your truck handle something like the Sepulveda Pass? It is funny but I have had more than one person tell me I sound just like him.

Those are both good points. I will have to take a look at the later transmissions....only thing may be the interface or compatibility with the fluid drive components I already have....unless there was a FD version or option? As far as engine mods go all I am considering at the moment is a set of Langdon headers and split the exhaust. A late 50's 2 bbl manifold and carb and a slight boost in compression. Definitely nothing too radical. Just going by a seat of the pants feel for the truck a gain of 10 to 15 HP would probably be adequate. I have not messed about with one of these flatheads before but I can't imagine this sort of mod having much in the way of negatives associated with it as long as I don't raise the compression too much. Am I way off here? Jeff

Wally I was under that impression too when I bought it. To be honest I haven't found much on the subject. Guess I will have to dig out the parts book. One thing is for sure I don't have it right now..... Jeff

Ah...yes Don. And if everybody behaved in this manner we wouldn't be having this discussion. But that isn't going to happen in this age of entitlement. Instead we have constantly expect the drivers around us to behave badly. When I was teaching my daughters how to drive the one thing I was able to get across to them was to just expect the drivers around them to pull the most ridiculous moves. It only took me saying "watch this idiot do this" a few times right before the did it before they learned that Dad wasn't always wrong. So far so good between the two of them neither has had even a fender bender in more than fifteen combined years of driving. Now if they could only learn how to park....... Jeff I was wondering about another version that had no OD but had 2nd and 3rd that straddled the ratio of my existing 3rd. Seems to me this might make a better match to the available power. What do you think? Jeff

I am committed to keeping a flathead in this truck. I just feel like swapping something else in would destroy the real character of the old beast. Reg you are right about modifying the address......I am working on that but it is a ways off. Also I want to be able to take fairly long trips with this truck so I want to get it right. My gut feel is that all it really needs is a little more power which I think is very do able. And some fine tuning of the gear box situation or gearing. I don't know what all could be done with the existing transmission but by far it would be easiest to retain it. Could a clever machinist add synchro to 2nd gear? If this could be done and the transmission completely rebuilt for say $1500 then I would probably go that route and be happy with it. It would be cheaper and less complicated than any swap. And it would be close to original still. I suppose the second option here would be to change the gearing to 3.73 in the rear end I have in this truck. I would want to wait on this until I have done some stuff to the engine. As it is right now 55 to 60 on level ground is no issue at all and it is very quiet and comfortable in the cab. Pretty much everything I end up doing at this stage needs to be a quick turnaround project. I don't want this truck out of daily service for more than 2 or 3 days if I can help it. Jeff

Wally I do use 2nd to take off. If the truck has had a chance to warm up good then taking off in 2nd on the fluid drive works ok...but when it is still cold it either stumbles a little bit or can stall. Stalling here is a good way to get rear ended. Jeff

Hey we are not that fussy. We can use it as is in our margaritas. Sad thing is before too long wars will be fought over it. Fred your truck goes pretty nice. It is really hard to make any sort of comparison from this type of video but I think I could keep up with you. I can get to fifty pretty quick if I have a open level road ahead of me. Thing is here as I have tried to convey people here don't drive with any sense. Sometime I get stuck behind the ones that hang back.....and it is next to impossible to keep the truck in the power zone with the way it is. When they turn off suddenly (often without a signal) I am left with a big gap ahead of me and no way to close it up as quickly as the drivers behind me would like to see. Jeff

Fred; Oh sure taunt us drought survivors with ditch's full of water. I had always thought Canadians were polite......but I can see you have a cruel streak. Don't be surprised when we invade..... It was a little hard to tell from the video what your truck was actually driving like. I was distracted by all the stuff hanging from the mirror. That much hanging here and you would have an accident for sure. Besides it would block my heads up display. Jeff

Don; I am sure your car has the power advantage going for it. Bigger engine that has mods.......probably a bit lighter and 27" tires versus 29" on my truck. Heck just that tire diameter difference is fairly significant. I know that several people have used the T5 in trucks. It seems like they like it. Just looking at the photos you posted makes it look like even with the shifter forward it would be in my bench seat......and I really like the seat. Maybe these guys have put buckets in?......I don't want to do that. Just ruins the feel to me. Jeff

Fred; I definitely want to get out of here. Our youngest daughter just got accepted into grad school at NAU in Flagstaff. It is a doctorate program so she be there for around 6 years. She has a meeting there this weekend and I am keeping my fingers crossed she likes it. If she moves there Momma is going to get a lot more cooperative on getting out of here......and that is a region I really like. Fingers crossed. I am not buying another car.......this one will just have to work. But I will get spares and backups for this one. I suppose I would consider a transplant but that is sort of a last resort to me. I am more likely to go for a power boost first. Headers...2 bbl and a slight shave. It seems there is no question a manual conversion is easier but I haven't given up on an automatic yet. I just need to do more research. It is early days for all this. Jeff

Tim don't get me started on how people think they can drive here. A simple sanity test would take 80% of them off the road. All wishing aside and driving conditions being what they are here I will be looking closely at these ideas. If there is a way to truly optimize this truck I will find it. Probably won't happen in one fell swoop. All it needs is a little more grunt and some fine tuning as far as the gearing goes. I am fairly certain I can get 10 to 20 HP out of it without diminishing reliability. This gearing thing is more complicated......but there will be an answer out there. I have been through this with motorcycles before and when you find the right combination it is a real transformation. In this case it is just going to be more work. Fred it really isn't the speed limits so much as it is just the way these fools here behave. California is a grossly overpopulated state and the authorities lost control years ago. The result is that a high percentage of our drivers are erratic and inconsistent ....... in other words there is no way of predicting what their next move is. They pretty much do whatever they please with total impunity. Pull up to a stop light behind a few cars and when it changes to green you might have one burn rubber and another car stay put because they are texting or yelling at a passenger. Honestly it is a freak show and it is getting worse. All you can do is try to stay completely aware of what is going on around you. The distraction however short of double clutching or monitoring revs etc...cannot always be afforded. I knew all along that driving a vintage truck in this mess was going to be a challenge. This is why I made a lot of the mods and alterations that I did. Falter in this traffic in the wrong place or at the wrong moment in front of a distracted driver and you will be sorry.....if you survive. I am sure there are people out there that thought I was crazy fitting 4 wheel disc brakes to my truck. I got to use them this morning in the fog. ...when someone pulled out in front of me without looking I will tell you what they will shave speed off this truck like you can't believe and with no fuss at all. I have never had drum brakes perform this nicely. Period. So the extra time and work to do this has already been justified. The same has been true of the ignition mod , the 6 volt alternator, the electric fuel pump and the lighting upgrades. And I have to figure that getting the gearing sorted out will be just as successful. The funny thing is that none of this would be needed if I lived and worked in a rural setting or only used the truck to go to a car show once in a while. But then that's not what I am up against. Jeff

Hey Wally; The 3.55 rear axle I have in this truck makes that a very slow take off. I doubt the people I have to share the roads here with would react nicely too. They are all in a rush...to get no where. Jeff

Thanks for the additional info Jeff. And you are so right about the good and bad points. Honestly I am not looking for a speed wagon here. Just want to make it as good to drive as possible. In general I am very happy with this truck. It has taken me a little while to feel comfortable in it......but then I had never even driven one until I put this back on the road. I wasn't at all sure of what to expect from it. Now that It and I are starting to feel settled in I know it is going to do just fine. It has it's little quirks but has been reliable on a daily basis. This gearing thing is just a wish right now. I will probably drive it this way for a while and then maybe see if I can get a few more ponies out of it. Nothing radical but even a 10 HP boost could make a significant difference. It is OK as it is on flat ground or even better than OK downhill. Jeff

Thanks for your input. Jeff on these conversions you did a while back did you just use the stock ratio rear axle? I kinda think my 3.55 set up would be too tall for the gearing in a Powerflite. The other thing I wonder about is that my truck is a fluid drive.......and I am not certain what all would be involved in making it compatible for a swap. I know the bell housing is different but I am not at all certain what else might have to be changed or modified? One scenerio I was considering is the 833.......just not the OD version. According one source there was an early 6 cylinder version that had gearing that might work OK with my 3.55 final ratio. At least it would give me 4 usable ratios to work with instead of 3. As I recall the ratios of 2nd and 3rd straddle my current 3rd gear ratio. Jeff

So has anyone actually put an automatic into a flathead powered truck? I have looked but have not found any examples other than the Truck-O-Matics. It definitely looks like a pretty big job.....more than I think I want to get into at this point without more confidence in the outcome.. Has anyone put an 833 transmission in a truck? Again have not seen or heard of one. What about mods to the existing 4 speed non spur gear box? Anyone know if it would be possible to have synchro added to 2nd gear. Or do any gearing mods? In one sense I wouldn't mind throwing some money at this gearbox as there would be no other mods required. It probably could stand to be overhauled and repaired anyway. It is a little noisy in 3rd and the shifter mechanism feels a bit worn. Jeff

You are probably correct about this. One thought I have had about this situation is to do what is reasonable to boost the power first. Then if that isn't enough I can always swap the gearing set in the axle to 3.73. Wouldn't be cheap but I could retain the brakes etc....that I already have into it. At least I have a pretty solid 230 T342 in this truck.......the 3.55 might have been way too much for a smaller version of this engine. Jeff