Roadkingcoupe

Here is a link to a site which documents the conversion of a 1939 Plymouth Coupe into a low rider modern sculpture. Nice work! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444316

Here is a link that has Lee's Exline's web article about the differences between AUS and US vehicles (utes). Lee's web page has been reprinted in Australian Chrysler Restorers club mag 2004 there is some very detailed info. The article is at the bottom of the page. http://www.chrysler-restorers-sa.org.au/crcmag150.pdf

Here is a very interesting set of photos. Lots of Old cars when you scroll down. http://thinkorthwim.com/2007/08/19/1034/

Discourage Verb 1.discourage - try to prevent; show opposition to; "We should discourage this practice among our youth" deter disapprove, reject - deem wrong or inappropriate; "I disapprove of her child rearing methods" 2.discourage - deprive of courage or hope; take away hope from; cause to feel discouraged 3 discourage - admonish or counsel in terms of someone's behavior; "I warned him not to go too far"; "I warn you against false assumptions"; "She warned him to be quiet"

"THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THE PLYMOUTH OWNERS CLUB, INC. IS TO PROMOTE THE CORRECT AND AUTHENTIC RESTORATION OF THE PLYMOUTH BRAND AND TO DISCOURAGE ANY ACTIVITIES, IDEAS OR PHILOSOPHIES CONTRARY TO THESE AIMS." I can only speak for myself, but the problem is not the first part of the mission statement. It appears to me that the second half of the mission statement directly pits the POC members against the P15-D24 member's interests. "....AND TO DISCOURAGE ANY ACTIVITIES, IDEAS OR PHILOSOPHIES CONTRARY TO THESE AIMS." It is possible that the word "discourage" was taken literally by some members. Personally I do not believe that "discourage" is an appropriate word in a mission statement. There is a wealth of info at the table. The POC for stock restoration and the P15-D24 site for "ACTIVITIES, IDEAS OR PHILOSOPHIES" that are progressive, ingenious and creative. Could you imagine the body of knowledge combined? All these enthusiasts openly engaging and learning from each other? Lets include everyone interested in these wonderful Plymouth vehicles. Thank you.

Here is a great photo....that answers your question.

+1 I read your books. You read my mind! I believe this is the attitude I spoke of. No reason to turn ANYONE away. Thank you for clearly stating your position. I realize that might cause some "friction" for you. For anyone that is unaware of Jim Benjaminson's "contribution" to Old Chrysler made vehicles. Here is a quote that covers some of Jim B's Mopar history. "Jim Benjaminson: Author, Plymouth Bulletin Editor, and Allpar Contributor Before his first birthday, Jim Benjaminson was photographed standing on the front fender of his Dad's 1934 Plymouth coupe--on his third birthday, he was photographed standing in front of his Dad's 1940 Plymouth. Although the original 1934 is long gone, Jim still has that same 1940 Plymouth -- and a few other Plymouths, including two 1934s, (along with several Brand X cars) to keep the '40 company. Although his Dad was service manager for a Chevrolet-Pontiac agency (there are several of the "other P cars" in the collection), Jim's first love has remained those early Plymouths. "I've always been around things mechanical"--either at the dealership where Dad worked, around his uncle's scrap yard or at his other uncle's farm, there was always something fascinating about machinery, be it old or new. Like most gearheads, Jim was the one who talked about cars in school, who drew cars when he should have been studying and snuck his car magazines into study hall inside his books. But it was old cars that really got him into the hobby at an early age, as he began collecting cars in the early 1960s. A common statement is "I can kick myself for not buying (insert any type or year of car here) when I could have bought it for little or nothing." But it was the lack of information available back then that led him to researching the history of Plymouth and started him on his writing career which now includes three books on the history of Plymouth and DeSoto--and with more in the works. Jim joined the Plymouth 4 & 6 Cylinder Owners Club back in 1967. Since that time, he's held the position of membership secretary for the club since 1974, served 7 years as the editor of the Plymouth Bulletin magazine and currently holds the dual positions of membership secretary and treasurer. During his years in the hobby, researching various events Jim has met with or talked on the phone with "famous" people of the hobby, such as Sullivan Richardson, Arnold Whitaker and Kenneth Van Hee of the Richardson Pan American Highway Expedition (Detroit to Cape Horn in a '41 Plymouth), Ole Fahlin of the Fahlin-Swanson Plymouth powered airplane, Channing Powell of the Powell Brothers who built their Sport Wagons on revamped '41 Plymouth chassis, Irma Darre Brandt, the first Norwegian female driver to compete in the Monte Carlo Rally, Wally Parks of NHRA fame and driver of "Suddenly", the 1957 Plymouth Bonneville speed record car and George Stecher, Chrysler turbine car engineer and driver of the car in race scenes for the movie "The Lively Set". Though Jim was too modest to say anything, he has written several books, including the Illustrated Plymouth & DeSoto Buyers Guide, Plymouth Commercial Vehicles: Photo Archive, and Plymouth 1946-1959, which is reprinted at Allpar." I wonder if that is Jim B in the photo below

In Eds photo the vehicle appears to be a Canadian 1939 Plymouth bodied Dodge (Plodge). The sedan in the photo has very unique tail lights that are glass Plymouth teardrops with the word "Dodge" embossed where the Plymouth "ship" would have been. The first photo is of an extremely rare 3 Window Coupe special bodied in Australia. As Andy has pointed out. I would really like to see one in the flesh. Along with a 1939 Plymouth AUS UTE. Its good to dream.......hey Andy any chance of locating/sending the 3 window Cpe and the Ute in the same 40 foot container to the other side of the world? How about this 1956 Diesel Plymouth.

Pictures are from a site called Allpar and there really is some interesting info. Notice on this D25 that not only does it have Plymouth fenders (and fender moldings) but the roof line is higher then the D24 vehicles. http://www.allpar.com/world/index.html

One of the nicer cars not sold in North America!

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. As I said earlier Jim B. is a an asset to this forum and also a true gentleman. Apology accepted. Roadkingcoupe p.s. check out the High N'Mighty. Awesome.

Girls love Plymouths "Bring on the dancing girls! These chorus girls pose with a 1939 Plymouth. The 1939 model featured a new safety-signal speedometer that would flash a green light for speeds of up to 30 mph, an amber light for the 30 to 50 mph range, and red beyond the 50 mph speed. In both 1939, Plymouth received awards for safety-minded automotive design." Photo # WP-3259 Chrysler Historical Collection

JB -"Yes, we do have a website and forum and yes--it does not generate the traffic this site does...but then we don't have the bantering and bickering I find on this and other MoPar related websites, either." With that logic the POC should stay small and full of like minded individuals who are not allowed to have an original thought. Kind of like an "OLD BOYS' club. What I would like to see is the POC revisit their mission statement. Something like...the POC remains dedicated to the correct and authentic restoration of original Plymouths. At the same time we appreciate and welcome other Plymouth owners who may have modified vehicles. In an attempt for the continued existence of ALL old Plymouths. Our mission statement is to keep these wonderful cars on the road and in the public view, and to welcome as many interested members as possible. Believe me the next "fight" wont be between or on the POC and the P15-D24 forums. It will be to keep these vehicles "legal" to drive on the public roads. If not in the US elsewhere legislation is inching closer to banishing these cars from the roadways all together. This forum is going through a couple of issues which are more of a result of the diverse and OPEN nature of the discussion. Pointing a finger at a large diverse P15-D24 membership that are allowed to speak freely is not the same as comparing to the POC forum which as you said "does not generate the traffic this site does". I am honest and genuine when it comes to this issue. I thought that the P15-D24 site was a great alternative to the POC (and it is) I personally welcome Jim B to this site, his knowledge is truly an asset we are lucky he decided to post on the P15-D24 forum. However, the POC is now posting on the P15-D24 to continue claiming they are open and inclusive. How did that happen? Times change and so should the POC! p.s. as stated earlier I own stock original cars!

Is there an indentation down the center of the guard?

Fact: Jim Benjaminson is knowledgeable. helpful, offers expert advice, a great resource person and provides really nice replacement tires for stock vehicles. Fact: Not everyone was welcome at the POC 80th anniversary outside of Detroit. Jim, I have been carping about the rigidity of the POC for the last 12-15 years. I spoke directly to the POC president at the end of the banquet. He clearly understood the issues. Unfortunately Jim B was not in attendance (family issues I believe) so that is correct you were not aware of the issues. The P15-D24 site has grown while the POC site has withered EXACTLY for these reasons. In 1988 I dragged my pride and joy 1939 Plymouth Coupe down to Plymouth Michigan for the 70th anniversary of Plymouth. Packed up the 1939 and headed down to Plymouth MI like I was going to Mecca. People were going to join hands, dance and sing Plymouth hymns. Well that was NOT to be. Although the 1939 is stock vintage car NOT modified it was not a 100 point car. At the time I did not even know what a 100 point car was. I loved my 1939 Plymouth and these "strangers" were picking it apart and dissing it. They were NOT open and inclusive. So frustrated but NOT defeated I promised myself I would return with a vehicle that would truly SHOCK and AWE the POC! So just like 10 years earlier I packed up and headed down to the POC 80th anniversary of Plymouth National meet. This time I would call Jim B in advance and OK the vehicle I was bringing would be welcomed. Spoke to Jim on the phone and he encouraged me to come down and I would be welcome. Well that didnt happen. Upon arrival I tried to register and they said "You cant bring a Dodge in here". I explained that the car was a Plymouth bodied "Plodge" and that Jim B. was aware of the vehicle and OKed it. The answer "Jim B. is not here and you have to display the vehicle in the parking lot with the trailers (away from the show field)" So off I went to the trailer parking lot. Even though I had brought a STOCK original RARE 41000 orig mile Dodge D20 A/S Auxillary Seat CDN 5 passenger coupe. Well I was lucky. A gentleman named Jeff (automotive writer for AQ ,Collectible Automobile and Judge at Meadowbrook) comes up to me and says "DO you know what you got here?" and I replied YES but no one else here seems to know. He says that he has written articles about these cars but never seen one like this in real life. Now I am back in the show field and Jeff takes a seat with my car and I and spends the next two hours talking about all kinds of old cars, and Canadian and British cultural differences. I guess Jeff is a well known author because people are lining up to talk to him, and all he would talk about was my car. So there I am on the show field (pavement) between two 1939 Plymouths and along come the "judges" who manage to completely miss that the car ia a 1941 Plymouth (rebadged as a Dodge) and go ahead and judge it as a 1939! Not once but three times I had to tell the judges it wasnt a 1939! Why would I believe anything that a judge had to say about a car... they didnt know about and were incapable of determining the year by sight? I know more about the car then ALL the judges put together BUT I learned keep your mouth shut and take it. WHY? should I do that? There wasnt ONE single 1941 Plymouth of ANY body style at the 80th POC meet. Not one 1941 Plymouth....unbelievable!. Now in 1998 there were 225 vehicles at the National POC and in 2008 there less then 75! at this rate there will be a couple of dozen cars at the 90th anniversary in 2018! Is that really what the POC wants? THE ANSWER IS....... 1-everything changes and so should the POC. If the original mandate is getting in the way....then change it. If the printed magazine is too costly E-publish it on the POC site and spend the savings on widening the base and making new membership a priority. 2-Own up to the inclusive nature of the club and make others more welcome. 3-If the POC has lost its relevance in 2010 there are enough members on the P15-D24 site to join the POC and change the rules themselves. Please take this seriously. The P15-D24 site and its popularity has grown as a direct relationship to the drop in POC activity especially on the net. 4-come to accept that the future of the POC is based on widening the appeal of the POC and building a younger membership base, who feel included and welcomed. How successful has the POC been at this compared to the membership that the P15-D24 site. The P15-D24 grew in the vacuum that the POC left. It was only a matter of time. Lets keep the POC alive. Even after being disappointed at TWO national POC events I still pay for the POC membership and hope it changes before there is nothing left to change. It is too easy to criticize, so I will offer my time if the thought of changing the POC becomes a reality. Thats the best I can do at this time. Hope the powers that be are listening. roadkingcoupe fat fendered crazy!

Fact: Jim Benjaminson is knowledgeable. helpful, offers expert advice, a great resource person and provides really nice replacement tires for stock vehicles. Fact: Not everyone was welcome at the POC 80th anniversary outside of Detroit. Jim, I have been carping about the rigidity of the POC for the last 12-15 years. I spoke directly to the POC president at the end of the banquet. He clearly understood the issues. Unfortunately Jim B was not in attendance (family issues I believe) so that is correct you were not aware of the issues. The P15-D24 site has grown while the POC site has withered EXACTLY for these reasons. In 1988 I dragged my pride and joy 1939 Plymouth Coupe down to Plymouth Michigan for the 70th anniversary of Plymouth. Packed up the 1939 and headed down to Plymouth MI like I was going to Mecca. People were going to join hands, dance and sing Plymouth hymns. Well that was NOT to be. Although the 1939 is stock vintage car NOT modified it was not a 100 point car. At the time I did not even know what a 100 point car was. I loved my 1939 Plymouth and these "strangers" were picking it apart and dissing it. They were NOT open and inclusive. So frustrated but NOT defeated I promised myself I would return with a vehicle that would truly SHOCK and AWE the POC! So just like 10 years earlier I packed up and headed down to the POC 80th anniversary of Plymouth National meet. This time I would call Jim B in advance and OK the vehicle I was bringing would be welcomed. Spoke to Jim on the phone and he encouraged me to come down and I would be welcome. Well that didnt happen. Upon arrival I tried to register and they said "You cant bring a Dodge in here". I explained that the car was a Plymouth bodied "Plodge" and that Jim B. was aware of the vehicle and OKed it. The answer "Jim B. is not here and you have to display the vehicle in the parking lot with the trailers (away from the show field)" So off I went to the trailer parking lot. Even though I had brought a STOCK original RARE 41000 orig mile Dodge D20 A/S Auxillary Seat CDN 5 passenger coupe. Well I was lucky. A gentleman named Jeff (automotive writer for AQ ,Collectible Automobile and Judge at Meadowbrook) comes up to me and says "DO you know what you got here?" and I replied YES but no one else here seems to know. He says that he has written articles about these cars but never seen one like this in real life. Now I am back in the show field and Jeff takes a seat with my car and I and spends the next two hours talking about all kinds of old cars, and Canadian and British cultural differences. I guess Jeff is a well known author because people are lining up to talk to him, and all he would talk about was my car. So there I am on the show field (pavement) between two 1939 Plymouths and along come the "judges" who manage to completely miss that the car ia a 1941 Plymouth (rebadged as a Dodge) and go ahead and judge it as a 1939! Not once but three times I had to tell the judges it wasnt a 1939! Why would I believe anything that a judge had to say about a car... they didnt know about and were incapable of determining the year by sight? I know more about the car then ALL the judges put together BUT I learned keep your mouth shut and take it. WHY? should I do that? There wasnt ONE single 1941 Plymouth of ANY body style at the 80th POC meet. Not one 1941 Plymouth....unbelievable!. Now in 1998 there were 225 vehicles at the National POC and in 2008 there less then 75! at this rate there will be a couple of dozen cars at the 90th anniversary in 2018! Is that really what the POC wants? THE ANSWER IS....... 1-everything changes and so should the POC. If the original mandate is getting in the way....then change it. If the printed magazine is too costly E-publish it on the POC site and spend the savings on widening the base and making new membership a priority. 2-Own up to the inclusive nature of the club and make others more welcome. 3-If the POC has lost its relevance in 2010 there are enough members on the P15-D24 site to join the POC and change the rules themselves. Please take this seriously. The P15-D24 site and its popularity has grown as a direct relationship to the drop in POC activity especially on the net. 4-come to accept that the future of the POC is based on widening the appeal of the POC and building a younger membership base, who feel included and welcomed. How successful has the POC been at this compared to the membership that the P15-D24 site. The P15-D24 grew in the vacuum that the POC left. It was only a matter of time. Lets keep the POC alive. Even after being disappointed at TWO national POC events I still pay for the POC membership and hope it changes before there is nothing left to change. It is too easy to criticize, so I will offer my time if the thought of changing the POC becomes a reality. Thats the best I can do at this time. Hope the powers that be are listening. roadkingcoupe fat fendered crazy!

The engine # as SIN was common in the 30's and 40's. This has caused me difficulties importing vehicles. Interesting that Chrysler must have thought the motors would last forever. As previously mentioned the SIN # should be found on the frame.

Here is a pic of the 1941 Plymouth Commercial brochure/post card. Nice vehicle. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2443/3752793944_5f9114008a_o.jpg

The bumper wings have been flipped upside down so the doors would clear. Not sure if it is stock or not.

On other boards that lean to the technical the moderator often interjects and refers the "newbie" to a FAQ section. In other words instead of answering the same questions over and over again for each newbie the FAQ section becomes a directory of often asked basic questions. In addition when the question has been asked previously other posters simply use the "SEARCH" button and repost the already "answered" question. I like this system because the "old boys" on the forum gently nudge newbies into the "knowledge coral". The main site (not the forum) has a tremendous amount of info and answers. These should be read first BEFORE asking the same question. For example "how many bolts hold the exhaust manifold on?" or "How come I cant get the Ex manifold off?" or "I just heard a "snap" when removing the manifold?" All of these questions have a simple answer that has been posted many times.....there is a hidden bolt!!!! A simple mistake that has been answered over and over again. SO the suggestion goes like this.....Change the main page FAQ to a tab that includes a list of many often asked questions that are searchable. If a P15-D24 member is getting annoyed by simplistic questions, simply cut and paste the link to the FAQ section and repost it on the forum. The point of this exercise is to train NEW members and some older ones to use the whole site including the information off the forum. Probably time consuming but this could be a window of opportunity to keep the wisdom at the table and not PO the new members. Everything is changing around us. The acceleration of change can be discouraging. This forum has been an oasis of "the way things should be" in the "real" world. So we can keep this thing alive and have fun. I personally dont care how much money someone has (or doesnt have) I care about OLD Plymouths and the great people that have built up this site. I respect and look forward to reading Don C and his contributions. The forum would lose out if he did not return. At the same token "newbies" should show a little respect for the time and knowledge others are willing to share. SUGGESTIONS #1- respect the others on the forum. #2-never post MAD. ALWAYS wait 24 hours before posting in anger. You might be surprised at how many posts DO NOT get sent. #3- NEVER post on a forum that you are RICHER, SMARTER and a LAWYER. Three simple rules.

I too am a little surprised by the recent turn of events on the forum. For the most part nasty behavior was reserved for all the other sites, this one was like a hidden gem and it lasted for a long time. Been here awhile, and the inclusive nature (stock, hot rod, show car, beater) was refreshing and truly an asset. I would miss it if it changed. Or maybe it already has. However it did get me thinking of the concept of the "perfect car". So permit me if you will to "discuss" the concept of the "perfect" car. Like many of you I go to car shows and see beautiful "done" cars. You know what I mean an 80K restoration in a vehicle worth 30K. The owner is "on guard" making sure no one touches the vehicle and that the vehicle remains pristine. Perfect........... but not my kind of fun. Or what about the guy that runs around the show pointing out the "flaws" in every car. Whats up with that? Luckily I have a choice of two old Mopars to drive, one is a 1941 with 41000 original miles, nice original car, with new paint,chrome and interior. The other is a 1939 Plymouth Coupe had it over twenty years and the resto is at least twenty years old, really just a nice driver. Paint is fair, body is showing some age, original headliner and the seats are less then comfortable on a long ride. Funny thing about the two vehicles. They both look great and everyone enjoys seeing them. BUT, the 1939 (flaws and all) is my PERFECT car. It rattles and squeaks and smells like an old car..... that"s a good thing. When I arrive at a show I make sure the brake is on and I don't come back till I leave (I dont need to worry if the 39 is OK). So many great cars to see, so little time! My point being is that a "perfect car" is too restrictive for me. A "perfect" car might not get driven as much. Like most of you I DO NOT like being told how to enjoy my car. I cring every time I push the "I AGREE" button on the POC site (even though I have stock original cars). So please share your stories of YOUR perfect car. Lets keep this site open, honest and inclusive. Thanks (rant over) roadkingcoupe

Over time I have been able to chronicle the differences between US and Canadian (export included) Mopar vehicles. In the 1939 Plymouth there are numerous differences between identical looking cars. Recently on ebay an Instrument cluster glass was pictured from a Cdn car. Most forum members are familiar with the sinlge tone brown glass face. There is a very interesting variation on Cdn cars. Pictured below are the two instrument glass treatments. All US cars had stainless moldings. CDN cars have a mixture of mostly pot metal and some stainless. The 70 year old pot metal literally crumbles in your hand. So the US version is superior, no pits, no rust etc. In this case the Instrument glass on the CDN car is unique and actually might be an improvement on this original US designed car. Pictures might take a day to clear the forum and be posted. auction # 300381364049 is the Canadian glass ebay link - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300381364049&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp2127.m39.l1313%26_nkw%3D300381364049%26_sacat%3D%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 auction #130347456409 ebay link- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1939-Plymouth-Speedometer-Instrument-Dash-Glass_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e59505799QQitemZ130347456409QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

The closed cars often have a cream/ivory colored plastic knob. I have a number of identical solid metal wiper knobs that were off of convertibles as well. Since the convertibles dash boards were exposed to the sun and the plastic would have degraded. Likewise the 1939 Plymouth had a "working mans wood" dashboard. Metal dashboard was woodgrained or painted to look like wood. The convertibles 2 and 4 door were absent of the wood looking dash and has a one color painted dashboard.

The 1950 Parts book for PDCD shows part # 1334489, 1334494, 1334495 as fitting a Chrysler Dodge and Desoto STATION wagon. You might want to check the parts book for a 1950 Wagon fender skirts. Hope that helps.

The handles have a crown in the middle of the knob which makes me think they belong on an Imperial (Chrysler). That would make it a Chrysler handle for late 1930's or 1940's vehicle. Looks like 1946-1948 Chrysler. Might also be 1941 1942. I believe there were a couple kinds for these years including the "flipper" style. The gear shift on these cars matches and also have a crown in the middle of the clear acrylic knob. Which is why IMPERIAL comes to mind. Info from memory (too lazy sun am to look it up) If I am wrong I am sure the forum will correct me. Hope that helps. roadkingcoupe