First start!! + cooling system question

[Cooper40]

We just got it running! It was a bunch of little 5 second bursts because we are completely new at feeding the carburetor and keeping it running. I didn't hear any loud knocks when it ran but it definitely wasn't running on all cylinders and it was backfiring out of the carb. 

When we first got the car I noticed that the water pump looked really crusty and so did the thermostat housing and inside of the head. (Look below for pictures). I felt the head after we ran it and it was warm. Not hot but definitely warm. Is that normal or should it not be warm yet? 

Also, is it okay to hook up a fuel system and run it for a minute before we dig into the cooling system, or should we not run it anymore and wait until the cooling system is in working order?

Again, very new at this, so all advice is welcome. 

 

*Look at my previous posts if you want to know more about the journey of getting it running.*

[Ivan_B]

2 hours ago, Cooper40 said:

Also, is it okay to hook up a fuel system and run it for a minute before we dig into the cooling system, or should we not run it anymore and wait until the cooling system is in working order?

As long as you have coolant inside - yes.

[Cooper40]

@Ivan_B I remember seeing coolant in the water jackets when the head was off so I guess that's good? The radiator isn't hooked up. I don't even know if it leaks or not.

[Ivan_B]

Well, you can probably run it for a minute, but I would not recommend doing that. Chances are, you'll toss this engine anyway, sooner or later. Did you ever drive an air-cooled motorcycle? You would usually feel the cylinder head by hand; once it is too hot to touch, it is ready to roll. During hot weather, it takes less than a minute to warmup. Well, the air-cooled engines are fine because they have larger gaps, but if you heat-up a normal engine like that, you can get it heat-seized.

 

In general, I would not be testing the engine with the radiator disconnected, etc., period. If you are planning to fix it, you need to fix everything, anyway

I know you did not ask, but I still think you guys should get a different car, which you can readily-enjoy. This one sounds like it will be off the rod for a long time. Think about it - you could've been driving around, right now, and asking how to do the regular maintenance, instead of messing with all this ?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Cooper40]

@Ivan_B I get what you're saying. We're going to keep the engine and probably tear it down next year. It's definitely a tired engine and we'll have to put a lot of work into it but we like learning how to work on engines and this seems like the perfect project. We want the satisfaction of saying that we rebuilt the original engine and that we are driving using the original engine. We're in no rush  

But thanks anyway for the advice, I understand where you're coming from.

[Los_Control]

It is tough this time of the year to deal with cooling systems. Best just to keep water away from it if outside temps are near freezing.

I have ran my truck several times with no coolant in it. ....... Meaning I cleaned my coolant system well to be sure it was ok, but the radiator was leaking badly and I removed it.

I still started my truck and moved it around the driveway. If one of my other vehicles needed work, I would start my truck up and move it to the side of the garage.

When the grass needed mowing I would move the truck around so could get the mower behind the garage ..... This went on for a couple of years while I worked on the truck.

I just never let it run long enough to overheat.

 

I can add, after running the engine with coolant in it for the first start and letting it run at operating temps it improved and smoke disappeared, valves started seating and was running good enough to be a driver.

 

Then with no radiator for a couple years and running it several times without getting up to operating temps, it was smoking badly, running rough etc.... I was thinking I can not drive it this way.

Now with a good radiator installed, let it run at operating temps, it has cleared up and runs better again .....

 

What I'm saying is, you can run it for short periods with no coolant ..... it will tell you something about the condition of the engine ..... if it is worth going forward with it.

You really want to get coolant in it at some point and let it run for awhile to really know what condition the engine is in.

[Cooper40]

@Los_Control Ok yeah I get what you're saying. We aren't going to run it anymore until the spring and we'll tackle the cooling system first thing before starting it again. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Cooper40

[Los_Control]

Now is a good time to add oil to the cylinders. A mixture of ATF & acetone is good, or plain old Marvel mystery oil ..... add it a few times over the winter, will slowly drain down into the pan then add some more.

 

Good chance you have some sticky valves since you said it was running rough like not all cylinders were firing .... will be good to loosen up the rings on the pistons.

A good soaking does not happen in a week ..... most of us do not have the time or patience for it ..... now is the perfect time to take advantage of the winter months and soak it. Will not hurt a thing.

 

In the spring time when you are ready .... make sure it will hold water anyways, then I would fill it with straight vinegar and let it soak while you run the engine.

[Ivan_B]

I don;t believe it's sticking anymore, they fixed it. As for winter conservation, I suspect that fogging oil in a spray can works better because it gets everywhere, especially if you crank the engine (carb and coil disconnected) while spraying it into the plug hole, as instructed.

[Cooper40]

@Los_Control Ok do i need to drain the block before putting oil in or leave as is?

@Ivan_B What don't you think is sticking?

[Ivan_B]

The engine (pistons/valves) is not shuck anymore, since you've fixed it, correct?

You do not drain the oil from the block when adding a little into the cylinders for conservation purposes.

[Cooper40]

Yes everything is moving involving pistons and valves. Valves just probably aren't seating all the way. 

Yeah I wasn't talking about draining the oil, I was talking about draining the block. Just did that. There was already some coolant in it that came out but I think some water too and a lot of it was rusty and brown. We'll definitely give it a good flush next spring.

[Los_Control]

It is very common for these old engines to have stuck rings when they have been sitting for long periods.

The rings are made of cast iron, the pistons a combination of different metals. The dissimilar metals cause corrosion and the rings stick to the pistons.

 

A healthy engine, the rings will freely move around in the ring landings of the piston. The rings also act like a spring and apply pressure to the cylinder walls.

When they get corrosion from sitting, the rings no longer move in the landings or apply pressure to the walls .... because they are stuck to the pistons.

 

The valve guides on these old engines will have small amounts of oil left in them. When a engine sits long enough, the oil turns to sludge.

When the engine is turned over, the cam will push the valve open. Sometimes the valve spring is just to weak to pull the valve closed through the hardened sludge.

If you remove the head, you often can just use your thumb and push the valve closed .... repeat the process a few times and the valve will start closing on it's own.

 

You have no stuck valves because you have compression on all cylinders iirc. But because of possible sludge build up, your valves could be sluggish in closing .... causing it to run rough.

For both the rings and valves, it can only help to soak them in a light oil. It will not produce miracles, yet it wont hurt a thing.

Fogging the cylinders will not hurt either, really would do nothing for the rings though.

 

Marvel mystery oil and atf can be added straight to the oil if you desire ..... it will help you more adding it to the cylinders though ..... later to the oil for a further cleaning if you wish.