MarcDeSoto Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Well, I'm back after many months absence from this forum. I just got back to Southern Calif. from Henry Ford's Greenfield Village where I saw and got rides in Henry's Model T's which are still thick on the streets of Henry's village! That got me more than interested in finishing the long postponed restoration of my 48 DeSoto business coupe. I took the radio out which is the same model as in the Plymouths and Dodges, an 802 Philco model with 8 tubes. Although, you may have a 600 series Philco radio which has just six tubes. After reading that it costs about $400 to have one of these radios restored, I thought I should see how difficult it is to fix it myself. I just bought a 1940's tube tester for $15 so I was able to test my tubes. All the tubes were the small locktal type Philco tubes, so I think they're original to the car. The tube numbers are 7Y4, 7C5(2), 7B6, 7A4, 7B8, and 7A7(2). Only two of the tubes tested good. All the tubes are available from Antique Electronics in Arizona <www.tubesandmore.com>. They say that most of these radios fail due to a bad vibrator. The vibrator is an electic switch which takes the 6 volt DC current from the battery and pulses it so the transformer will think it's getting AC. If the points stick in the vibrator, the 14 amp fuse in the A lead from the accessory terminal of the ignition switch, or the hot side of the fuel guage, will blow. Putting more fuses in will usually not solve this problem until the points get unstuck, or a new vibrator is installed. I plugged the vibrator into the four socket section of the tube tester and it hummed which means it's OK, I think. If you have a vibrator that has failed, Antique Electronics sells a solid state replacement for about $30. I'm thinking of writing an article on my radio restoration and posting pics with it. There is a good M.T.S.C. Master Tech booklet on radios in Vol. 4 no. 7 c.1951. I have the whole kit with filmstrip, booklet, record, etc. My question is do I need to buy a 6 volt battery now to test it or can I use another power supply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 The Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village are great places to visit. We went there five years ago and plan a return trip in the next couple of years. FWIW, the Model T's in use there were actually built a few years ago to the original design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 I don't quite understand the question. Do you have a 6 volt battery from your car now? That would work. If you plan on working on a lot of radios then you could buy a 6 volt bench unit that would supply the needed voltage. They should come up on Ebay from time to time. ETS , Electronic Tube Supply is out East but they are always cheaper than AES on tubes. These tubes are fairly cheap from anyone. But if you are by capacitors and the likes, AES would be one stop shopping. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 I fixed many 802 radios. 4 amps of "DC 6 volt" will work. Many times I would use my 6 volt car charger. if you plan to use the original speaker you will need more amps as it uses a power to get magnetized. you can avoid that by using a regular permanent magnate speaker. Change out all the wax paper capacitors in the radio. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_MN Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 I'm just starting the restoration of a 602 radio built by Colonial Radio. A friend suggested that instead of starting out with 6 volts, remove the vibrator and gradulally increase the voltage starting out with 1 volt and increase slowly to 6 volts. This is supposed to nurse the capacitors back to health. I borrowed a DC variable voltage supply from a friend and I won't know for a while if this process make any difference or not. When I got the radio, I had to clean out the mouse nest, including a dead mouse, and for sure I need to restring the dial because that was included in the nest. I haven't noticed if the tubes have any light but I'm only up to 4 volts. When I'm finished, I'll mount it in my Pilothouse Pickup. Dennis Sullivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted July 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 The Model T's there were built just a few years ago? Are you sure? What is your source for this info? I was told the touring car I was riding in was a 1914 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted July 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 I don't quite understand the question. Do you have a 6 volt battery from your car now? That would work. If you plan on working on a lot of radios then you could buy a 6 volt bench unit that would supply the needed voltage. They should come up on Ebay from time to time. ETS , Electronic Tube Supply is out East but they are always cheaper than AES on tubes. These tubes are fairly cheap from anyone. But if you are by capacitors and the likes, AES would be one stop shopping. Eric Eric, thanks for this great information. I didn't know that they had 6 volt DC plug in units to test car radios. You see I don't have a 6 volt battery for my car since it's been so many years since I've needed it. Not running you see. I'll try ETS for tubes as you are right that AES is a bit steep on tubes. Also it is a good idea to re cap the radio as the all the capacitors have probably dried out. You should also replace the capacitors on the generator and elsewhere to retard interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted July 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Eric, I looked for ETS, but could not find it unless you mean this site: http://members.aol.com/etetubes/ run by Dick Bergeron out of Maine. Is that the place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Need some dial cord? I have 17 ft left from the 25 ft roll I bought for my recent radio restoration. I offered to donate the cord to nostalgia air, but have not heard back. If they don't want it, it's yours for the asking. I shocked my vibrator to life by running 120 v through a 40 watt bulb in series. I had saved the cord from an old electric drill, complete with trigger. I could blast the vibrator for a few seconds at a time, and with the trigger off I wouldn't have any live connections. The AC current gets the points moving, and the high voltage burns off the crud. It took a few treatments, but the vibrator is still working. I saved the drill cord, in the event the vibrator poops out again. Did you get those schematics from Nostalgia air? Those for my model were from a radio bible by John F Rider, and included diagrams on how to string the dial cord. I got my vibrator running, replaced the paper and electrolytic capacitors, and after a few false starts got the radio running, without any new tubes. But I had bought some tubes anyway. If you need any, I have two 7A7s and one 7Q7. I was always going to try to fix my radio some day, if only l had an adequate power supply for bench testing. I had once used a lantern battery to work on an auto clock, but that battery didn't last long. So my radio repair odyssey started with a bargain battery from Sam's club. That gave me power for bench testing. I wired in a 15 amp breaker. Worked fine. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted July 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Eric, I just did a price comparison on tubes from Antique Electronic Supply in AZ and ETE from Maine. To replace all 8 tubes from AES with new tubes the cost is $44.50. The cost from ETE for new tubes is $28.65. Although I know AES is very good and reputable and I know nothing about the other company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_MN Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Need some dial cord? I have 17 ft left from the 25 ft roll I bought for my recent radio restoration. Did you get those schematics from Nostalgia air? Sent you a PM about the dial cord... I did find the schematics in Nostalgia air thanks to you. The mouse had eaten the identification and tube diagram and used them for part of his nest so I had no clue where to look for a schematic. It looks like I can string the dial from the schematic instructions. Manufactured by Colonial was the first step. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 I'm just starting the restoration of a 602 radio built by Colonial Radio.A friend suggested that instead of starting out with 6 volts, remove the vibrator and gradulally increase the voltage starting out with 1 volt and increase slowly to 6 volts. This is supposed to nurse the capacitors back to health. Dennis Sullivan Slowly increasing the voltage is done commonly on AC radios with transformers not much worth with ac/dc radios. It is done with a Variac and you start at about 10 volts and slowly over a day bring it up to 120V. There isn't $12.00 worth of capacitors in a car radio. I would replace all of the wax ones. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Eric, I just did a price comparison on tubes from Antique Electronic Supply in AZ and ETE from Maine. To replace all 8 tubes from AES with new tubes the cost is $44.50. The cost from ETE for new tubes is $28.65. Although I know AES is very good and reputable and I know nothing about the other company. I have used them many times and they were always fast and the order was correct. I would do what Donald did and buy a 6 Volt car battery, you'll eventually need one anyway. The thing with buying an old power supply is that it might need work. I got mine at an auction with a bunch of radio junk. It was used as a battery eliminator for a 6 volt set. Up well into the 1930's many radios ran on car batteries. Sometimes they are refered to as Farm Sets. They also used a vibrator. They made Winchargers here that could charge battteries. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted July 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Eric, Can you give me the website of the tube store you recommended. I did not find an Electronic Tube Supply in my searches. Please tell me the name and website of the tube company you used please. Thanks, Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 http://members.aol.com/etetubes/ This is who I use when I only need tubes or the tubes are pricey. If it is a single $4.00 tube and I need a few other items I will use AES but if it is just tubes then ETE. There are a couple of .007 @ 1600V capacitors or something in that neighborhood used in these radios. They will be close to the vibrator. I have a few hundred of them, NOS, that if you have a hard time finding I will mail them to anyone who wants a few. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted July 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Eric, Yes I would like a few for this radio. Just tell me how much to send and where and I will give you my mailing address. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Marc. You can have them for free. I have nothing in them, they came with someother items. Send me your address via private message and I will mail it out. Eric The same is for anyone else wanting a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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