Sparkplug Heat Range???

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, what is the correct Autolite plug to be used in our flatties. I was wondering if I was using a plug to hot or if using regular gas was causing my engine to run hotter. A frined of mine told me he always uses Premium gas when the weather gets warmer in winter, so his snowmobile engine will run cooler, and with #1 fuel it apparently does run cooler....Fred

[Norm's Coupe]

Fred,

I use AC plugs. Think the number is AC45 or 47 without looking. Many other seem to use AC plugs too. Right after my rebuild I put new Autolite plugs in. Never could get the car running good with those, so threw them away a couple of days after putting them in. I think the reason I had trouble with the Autolite plugs was because you had to screw the little cap on top. Think that was the primary reason they didn't work good for me. Just my opinion, but I'd stick with AC plugs.

Can't comment on the gas issue. I've never put anything but regular gas in mine.

[greg g]

Well, I thought I had posed this this AM, but here goes again. the heat range on the spark plug refers to the temperature that the electrode runs at and is usually a measure of how far the electrode extends into the combustion chamber away from the cooling effect of the water jackets in the head. Nothing to do with how "HOT" the spark might be. These extended tips plugs usually help for cars that are burning a little oil or running a little rich as the retained heat helps dealing with the carbon build up.

Speaking of which how is your timing? Now as for your overheating, what mix of antifreeze and water are you running? Modern coolants have a lot of properties but heat absorbtion and transfer is not a good as water. So the more antifreeze, the less heat transfer. I run a 75 25 mix, as I do not run the car in freezing weather, and add the green stuff for the anti corrosion and lubricating qualities. I have a 160 stat and the car hardly evers goes above 170/5. Ran about 40 miles in 85 degree heat the other day and even climbing hills it barely touched 185. Try dumping the solution you have in there and running with just water for a couple of days. If it makes a difference you might want to introduce something like the Royal purple stuff. I ran something similar in an old honda civic that had lost about 70% of of the fins missing between the tubes of the radiator. It use to run nearly to the red in normal driving, I added some of that stuff and the needle barely passed half way on the gauge. Don't know what temps that related to but it was an appreciable difference. here is some info regarding their testing of their product. You can clearly see the differnce between 50 /50 and water. So maybe get this or something similar and try a 70/30 mix of coolant water and see if your results change. Also for the money, I'd be replacing theos rad hoses.

IMHO running premium in a car designed for lower octane helps nothing but the oil company's bottom line. Nothing in it to help a car run cooler. Unless yer running alcohol, cumbustion temp is cumbustion temp. Not endorsing the Royal Purple product, but my experience with a similar one was positive.

http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/prpice.html

[55 Fargo]

The timing is as far advanced as I can take it right now, at least I think it is. The bottom rad hose sections will be replaced as they should be. I am willing totry straight water, or anything else for that matter, this cooling has me baffled, don't even want to take the car too far, as it might set too hot. As I am basically on my own here with this problem, I am running out of ideas, and am tempted to get another engine, found a good running 365 the other day, right near where I live, for a $100.00, it's on a welder right now. I knwo this sounds drastic, or maybe I should spend $300.00 and have one of my rads re-cored. This one has me scratchin thje old noodle alright, maybe this block is still plugged, or maybe the dang head gasket is leaking, . I sure hope I can figuire it out someday........Fred

[Don Coatney]

Fred;

Go ahead and change the lower hoses, the coolant, and the engine. Make sure the timing on the new engine is advanced as far as possible, keep your right foot in it and let us know how it does.

Or you could follow Gregs excellent and well written advice and let us know how it does.

[55 Fargo]

Hi Don, I agree with Greg, an am thankful for his and everyone elses advice/help on this forum. Being somewhat inexperienced, I may be going in circles on this heating problem, this has been going on for over a year, I figure some of youse guys are sick of hearing about it, and believe me I am sick of talking about it. But I am certainly willing to give any sound idea a chance, infact I phoned a dealer here in Canada, about Purple Ice, he says its great stuff, when mixed with water somehow changes the chemistry and creates a super coolant liquid...........Fred

[greg g]

Why is your timing advanced as far as possible????? Should it not be set as spece'd or just a hair advanced for todays slower burning fuels?????

[55 Fargo]

I advanced the timing till it was pinging and backed it off just a bit. This I thought would help with the heatrange, but no such luck, it's running great and starts great as well..................Fred

[greg g]

Fred have you checked the flow of the radiator??? Simple test, Drain the coolant and remove the bottom radiator hose. cap off the bottom radiator outlet with an easily removeable stopper (Duct tape?) Then refill the radiator with water. Remove the bottom stopper and observe the column of water leaving the radiator. it should stand about 5 or 6 inches tall before falling back on its self. If it is apprecialby lower then the radiator is partially clogged.

It's funny that there is little talk of overheating among the flathead mOPAR community. These were well engineered systems with a built in reserve. Look at Ed Gross's car with the stock radiator and the 440 and no problems.

Did you check your water pump impellor as Lou suggested? another simple test, you remove the plate that the heater return hose goes to on the water pump. Stick a screw drive in up agains the impellor, and turn the fan by hand. If the fan turns and the impellor doesn't, the drive pin on the shaft is sheared. This will allow the impellor to stall against the water at higher engine speeds and need for the coolant to circulate faster.

[BobT-47P15]

I've been using Autolite 303 plugs.......seem to work ok.

[55 Fargo]

The only test the rad had before it was installed was by Tim Adams, at the time Tim tested the rad (may2006), it was flowing like a twin bladdered dairy cow on a flat rock. So it has lots of flow, the rad when the engine is warmed up but not too hot, is warm on top and progressively cooler to the bottom, and no cold spots. The other day I discovered my bottom rad hose collapsing when I would rev up the engine, discovered this by accident as I just happened to look at the hose when this was going on. Now would the bottom rad hose collapse, if the water pump was not working, or would it still possibly collapse when the engine is revved up even though it may not be pumping all that well. I need to check these items, to confirm what is going on..Thanx for your time Fred

[55 Fargo]

Just went for a run only about 3 to 4 miles tops, speeds up to 50 or so, temp was up to 200, coolant in rad was flowing, would flow faster with engine revved up, the rad was hot on top progressively cooler to the bottom. Just can't help to wonder if the block and water passages are still or partially plugged yet. I had out the water tube and 3 freeze plugs out in the spring of 2006, flushed with pressure washer and warm water, everywhich I could, maybe it wasn't enough.........Fred

[Normspeed]

Fred, I run Autolite 306 plugs gapped at .028-.030. That's on a 218 motor.

I don't think plugs would cause that kind of overheating. Advanced timing can make motors run hot, but yours sounds like maybe the rear part of the block and head may not be getting a good flow of coolant. The temp gauge pickup is at the rear. When I pressure washed my block it was out of the car on a stand and I still think I didn't get all the crud out until they hot tanked the block.

[Lou Earle]

couple of other observations and tests

1- Remove the thermostat and put it on a pan on the stove and heat it up and see if it opens at the right temp- by having a thermometer in the pan with it .

2-Remove the radiator hose from the side if the water pump leaving it attached to the bottom. Do not remove the top hose .Now put a garden hose in the lower hose and cram a rag around it and turn on the water. See how well the water runs back wards thru the radiator and if it come out clean- One time I found a whole bunch of acorns a squirrel had deposited in it for me !!

One other thing- when did this problem develop? That is often the key.

Lou

[Lou Earle]

Also another observation

If your are not running a thermostat that can cause overheating because it slows the water down going thru the radiator giving it time to cool down.

Many a Ford engine was ruined by not running thermostats or restriction washers.

I would also re time the engine- on the back of the Distributor is another 7/16 bolt you can loosen to adjust the the timing. I often set the timing initially by setting the pointer on TDC then set and lock the dist on the left side dead center. Then loosen nut on back and set timing that way. Then I have plenty of room to adjust either way on the left adjuster that bolts to the engine

Lou

[Lou Earle]

Also

Make sure no brake is dragging- I do this by running the car a mile or so and let it coast to stop or use e brake. The I get out and touch each drum- you Will often l be surprised to fined a couple dragging

Lou

[55 Fargo]

Thanx a lot Lou, for all of the good advice, removed rad this morning, the water pump impellor is okay, after jamming the screwdriver in it, the fan would not turn. Did a flow test on rad, the water was flowing about 2 to 3 inches away from the bottom outlet. I could not reverse flow with the hose, the water just kept running back out the bottom outlet. I rinsed the rad quite a bit form the top, it seemed to have a lot better flow, after it was rinsed a number of times. I did not notice any crud coming out, there were some particles flowing out, but nothing significant. While running the garden hose in the top, the rad would fill up and overflow through the top even though it was draining from the bottom, is this normal, or is it not flowing enough through the cores, maybe my engine was dirty and started to plug the rad.

I drained anout about 1/2 gallon from the block petcock, it was draining as swift as I used to do on 6 beers, and the anitfreeze was pretty clean.

Put everything back together, started engine, let warm up, went for a 2 mile ride, came back and she was running at 180 on gauge and 160 to 165 in the rad with thermometer, but it is on the cool side this morning at about 64 degrees. I will go for a longer run, later today and report the results. Will look at the timing on engine and set correctly. Also will try brake drag test...................Thanx Fred

[55 Fargo]

Greg tried this test, the water did not stand, you mean like a water fountain correct. It was flowing away at about 3 inches, it took a bit to drain down, I could not reverse flush the rad, the water kept flowing back down and out the bottom outlet, I was also running the garden hose in the top of rad, it would fill up the rad, and overflow faster than it would drain at the bottom, not sure if that is normal though. If I tipped the rad over toward the bottom outlet side the water would come out a lot better, there were some particles coming out, but nothing significant. Maybe this rad could be boiled out, I think it is a honey comb type, at least it loks like one, apparently they are very difficult to clean and rod out..Fred

[greg g]

On mine the water flowed out almost as quickly as it flowed in. If it does not gush out of the bottom you have a flow problem through the radiator.

Here is the factory drawing for the flow test. Make sure the upper outlet is plugged. the other pic is the impeller test. Honeycomb type radiators can not be rodded as there is no place for the rod to pass through. but it can probably be pressure flushed.

[55 Fargo]

Here is a pic of the rads, and one of the water pump, is this a honeycomb rad design.Fred

[greg g]

Yep, here is a pic of a fin and tube design, as you can see with the tank removed, a small diameter metal rod would be pushed down the tubes freeing then of scale and rust blockage, the tanks would then be resoldered back on restoring the radiator to is uslfullness.

[greg g]

aaa

[55 Fargo]

I have pulled my rad one more time today, it's flowing but it does not shoot the water up like the pic, it will also overflow with the garden hose pumping water into the top, while the water flows out the bottom. I am bringing it into a rad shop tomorrow morning to be boiled or pressure washed. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope they can improve the flow and not cause anyleaks. I did notice there is a brown sticky subsatnce in the water outlets if you stick your fingers in there, probably old glycol antifreeze, it almost seems greasy, but a gooey sticky greasy. If the tubes are coated with this stufff, it would surely impede flow and cause a thermal effect, lessening the heat transfer......Fred

[Lou Earle]

I do not think u can rod out this honeycomb radiator0BUT you can take it to a radiator shop[ and let them soak it overnight in their vat and flush it out in the Am- It sure sounds to me now like a radiator obstruction.

Lou

Does a 48 Dodge interchange I might have a good one

Lou

[55 Fargo]

Louman, it is going to be boiled out for the day tommorrow, this rad was from a 47 D-24. If this doesn't work, I will have the 47 Chrsyler rad recored, but I am sure if this rad is cleaned, and it doesn't leak it will be fine.........Fred