35 Plymouth Questions

[BigDaddyO]

I didn't count 35 questions regarding Plymouths...

[DJ194950]

ROB-PA

 

Finally got an answer from my friend with the 37 Ply. and parts info for you.

 

He has a 49 Ply. motor, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch plate (borg & beck long style) with the original 37 bell housing/ trans and original type floor starter and all works well together for many years.

 

Truck flywheel, clutch setup may work, not sure. Redrill flywheel for 9 1/4"or 10" v/s 11" if needed. Q. is the crackshaft offset the same on the backside of the flywheel?? Again don't know, others might.?

 

Maybe find a car flywheel/clutch set-up even later years seems OK, more local, should not be too hard as you are now connected to the best web. forum out there!!

 

Seems that 9 1/4" dia., 10" dia. and 11" dia. clutches were avail. for many years. Even saw an 9 1/8" clutch for export?

 

Agree with Don C. if not able to locate a clutch setup. Call  Tennessee clutch for help. If they say maybe, have Don C. call them- He's their #1 salesman!

 

DJ

[ROB-PA]

Well, back from working on the house today. I hope to get back to removing body bolts tomorrow.

 

I went over this afternoon and removed the spring shackle from the 36 frame to replace the one that I found broken. It came off surprisingly easy; a little heat and a big breaker bar to get it started and then the sleeve nuts spun right out. That's not too bad considering this frame sat in the woods behind the POs shop for about 30 years half buried and with weeds growing up through it.

 

The question of the day (don't worry BigDaddyO, you can be sure there will be a lot more than 35 before I'm done!) is on brakes. I've been debating with myself about keeping them stock or converting to front disk and something like a Ranger rear end with drums. So far I've found 2 sources for the front disk conversion; Rusty Hope and SRPM. Rusty Hope has a basic kit that requires some additional mods and purchasing all of the actual brake components. SRPM has the complete kit, not sure if any mods are required.

 

As much as I'd like to keep the car original I can see some real benefits to having something modern that is relatively easy to work on or get someone else to work on. Also I plan on putting some miles on her taking trips with the wife.

 

Does anyone on here have any experience with either of these kits for front disk brake conversion? I would appreciate any comments on your experience.

[Don Coatney]

 

 

Agree with Don C. if not able to locate a clutch setup. Call  Tennessee clutch for help. If they say maybe, have Don C. call them- He's their #1 salesman!

 

DJ

I don't know if you ever read about my initial contact with Tennessee Clutch but here it is.

 

I will never forget my visit to Tennessee Clutch. I walked in and found dirt/grease lumps on the floor and 3-4 guys sitting around a pot bellied heater drinking coffee although the stale grease burnt clutch stench out weighed the coffee smell. One fat guy sitting on a stool with a cigar stub and drool hanging out of his mouth asked me what I wanted. I thought I was had! The front office was not an office but looked more like something that you would find in the deliverance movie with no banjo playing. I once again thought I was had! I told the fat guy I wanted my pressure plate re-worked and I plopped it down on the counter. Again I thought I was had and this fat guy would rape my old fat punk butt. The fat guy hollered to the back of the shop and some young kid appeared, grabbed my pressure plate, and disappeared. The fat guy told me it would be an hour so I disappeared out the door before something dreadful happened.

An hour later I returned. The kid plopped my rebuilt pressure plate down and he once again diappeared to the back of the shop. There was a girl behind the counter this time although the drolling fat cigar smooking guy was still there and very much in charge. I told the girl I needed a clutch disc just like the one I plopped down on the counter. She disappeared into the rack of shelves and I once again thought I was had by the drooling fat cigar smoking guy. She plopped the required disk on the counter and I shook as I asked the dredded question "how much"?

She told me something less that one hundred dollars for the whole deal. I about fell off my stool but I know that if I had done so the fat drooling cigar smoking guy would have had his way with me. I then got brave and said I needed a pilot bushing even though I did not need one. She produced the bushing for me and I asked "how much"? She said no charge. Then I really got really balsy. I told her I want two bushings knowing the fat cigar smoking droller was still there.

This is a true story and I am glad so many forum members got satisfaction from what has proven to be a great vendor.

[Robert Horne]

Rob, I installed a Ranger rear on my 38 Coupe.

The Ranger is too narrow, but I added 1 inch spacers to make it work.

Ranger 3.73 gear with the Ranger TKO 5 speed is working good so far.

Many guys are using Explorer rears for a better fit.

I may try my Jeep Cherokee XJ rear, 3.55 gear, seems to be about the same size as the Explorer..

[DJ194950]

Don you should be a pro writer with that story!

 

Been several years 2-3, I sent them a pressure plate, clutch disc for rebuilding and asked the man in charge at the time (the smoker?) to call when done and I'd give him a CC # to pay. Only about 2 days after it was received  (checked the tracking info) by them I got the call.

About $65 bucks. I'd mentioned the P-15 and Don C's referral on the first call. I was asked if I needed a throwout bearing, I said yes I guess. So paid and done.

Wait, received parts and also had the pilot bushing and a plastic alignment tool for the disc. At $65 Shipped!

 

Wonder if  the P-15 site mention helped the price or He remembered his drooling  thoughts of Don's?    Tennessee holds fond memories for Don? 

 

DJ

[ROB-PA]

DJ, Thanks for checking with your friend, I appreciate all of the help here.

 

I will call the Tennessee Clutch outfit to see what they have. I won't really know what I need until I get the engine out of the truck frame and I can't do that until I get the body off. I only have one bay to work in. I went out this afternoon and removed 6 more body bolts. I have 6 more left (I think) and these are the tough ones they will need to be either torched off or, as mentioned earlier, have something welded to the heads to keep them from turning. For some reason it is only the bolts that go through the side of the frame that are problematic. The ones through the top of the frame came on relatively easy; just some heat, liberal use of PB Blaster and elbow grease. Maybe it has to do with the way the frame flexes.

 

Nobody chimed in on the disk brake conversions so I guess that doesn't get done a lot here. I was hoping to get some feedback on whether there were enough problems to avoid it and maybe which conversion kit was more user friendly.

 

The question of the day is; what year did they start putting the 4 speeds in the trucks. I never checked the one that I got from the 46 truck and I just assumed it was a 3 speed but I did notice that it is physically longer than the one in the car. I'd check it but I have it is out behind my shop and tarped up; right now and it is pouring rain.

[Robert Horne]

Rob, on brake information, just go to the top right of the page search, and type in disc brake conversion.

 

There are 100s of thread here on disc brakes.

[ROB-PA]

Well, today I finally got back to working on the Plymouth. I removed the remainder of the 'carriage bolt' type body bolts by welding pieces of 1/4" bar stock to the heads to prevent them from turning. This worked on 4 of the 6 remaining. The other 2 were tucked in a corner of the rear door hinge post that placed the nut right in the junction of the X frame and the main frame rail; no way to turn it. These 2 had to have nuts welded to the head so that a box end wrench could be wiggled on the nut and the head turned from the outside. The only 2 body/frame bolts left now are 1 each located in the rear fender well. These are just standard hex bolts and I will remove them after the fenders are removed. I started removing the passenger side running boards and fenders today as well. Did I mention this thing is built like a tank? There are 10 bolts securing the running boards to the frame and 3 on each fender. I'll need to buy stock in whoever owns PB Blaster.

 

I also started looking at what will be needed to remove the dash. I found that there are 2 coils mounted to the firewall. The original that goes through the firewall and a newer, separate mounted to the firewall. I decided to pull the original and check it to see if it was bad. I was surprised to find an armored cable running to the ignition switch.

 

I did some digging on the rear axle replacement and found the following chart which may be useful to others.

 

 

[ROB-PA]

It doesn't look like my attachment worked. I'll try again. Okay, had to convert it to pdf.

AxleChart-1.pdf

[Robert Horne]

Many people are using the Explorer rear, the 95 and up have disc.

My 98 XJ Cherokee Jeep rear looks to be a good fit also...

My 95 Ranger rear install, needed 1inch spacers to be a good fit..

[ROB-PA]

Robert, I'm still debating about the swap. Aside from the ratio the one thing I don't like about the stock rear is the necessity of the special puller for the rear drums. I noted in some of the posts I reviewed that some of the guys on here removed the drum from the hub and left it that way. Will the drum center well enough the way it is made? If this works well I may just leave the stock axle in the car. otherwise I'm leaning toward the Dana 35 from the Jeep.

[Niel Hoback]

My drums have been separated from the hubs for many years now with no ill effects. Brake work is a cinch. Many GM cars never had their drums riveted. The only drawback is the loss of the guide pin if you are using lug bolts instead of nuts.  

[deathbound]

I used the Rusty Hope kit on my '38 Plymouth Coupe.....here's my thread:http://p15-d24.com/topic/26625-new-front-disc-brakes-front-end-rebuild-steering-rebuild-for-the-38-plymouth/

There are other threads using the Scarebird kit.....

 

Here are a couple rear axle charts that have been posted before....

Edited November 3, 2014 by deathbound

[Robert Horne]

Robert, I'm still debating about the swap. Aside from the ratio the one thing I don't like about the stock rear is the necessity of the special puller for the rear drums. I noted in some of the posts I reviewed that some of the guys on here removed the drum from the hub and left it that way. Will the drum center well enough the way it is made? If this works well I may just leave the stock axle in the car. otherwise I'm leaning toward the Dana 35 from the Jeep.

I never could get the drum off my 38 without messing up the axle flange, so ground off the drum rivets, to make brake repairs easy.

I used the stock rear for many years, until I went with the 5 speed, where the 3.9 rear was too low.

My Ranger rear is a 3.7, which is a little too low, but I am happy with it.

The Jeep XJ rear I have is a 3.5 rear which I feel would be a better gear for my 80 hp engine, if I get time to do the switch..

[ROB-PA]

Thanks for the responses guys. Deathbound, I already read your post, very good. I have worked on a few cars with the slip on drums. If I recall correctly the drums located themselves on the studs fairly well and the center bore on a lip on the flange. If others are running this option successfully I'll most likely first try the stock axle first with the drums de-riveted. I am still planning on the disc brake conversion on the front. I have been researching the options. So far Rusty Hope looks best. I just found TSM Brake Conversions and they look interesting. I don't know yet whether they use a standard disc or if they make a custom one. If it is custom I would not use them as I would then be locked into something that may not be available in the future for repairs.

 

I'll start researching dual chamber master cylinders to see if I can find an option that requires little or no modifications with the stock pedal arrangement.

[ROB-PA]

Well, I managed to get a couple of days to work on the 35 Plymouth the around Thanksgiving. The prep for body removal has been slow. All of the body bolts are now removed; only 4 were broken and will need to be drilled out. I can't believe the amount of fasteners in this car! Aside from the 46 body bolts there were 12 bolts in the X frame (I originally thought that these were part of the 46 count, but nooo!), 10 from each running board to the frame, 7 from each running board to the front and rear fenders, 4 for each front fender (some were out already) and 5 for each rear fender. Altogether it was something like 120to 130 rusty festered bolts, most with the heads rounded already from some previous attempt to disassemble.

 

Next I need to remove the steering column and the dash. I would really appreciate some insight on how this is best accomplished. After that the body will go on the rotisserie; which I am still waiting for my friend to finish fabricating. The chassis will go into another bay as soon as I remove my other long term project (1937 Chinese BMW clone with sidecar) and the 12 kw back up generator that goes to my West Virginia house.

 

A few pictures are attached below of the 'naked lady'.

 

 

[DJ194950]

To my eye that's one pretty lady! 

 

Think I'd prefer your rusty bolt fight to the one I had on a 33 Ply. 4 dr. project I bought many years ago in S.C. (long gone) that the floor bolts and door post bolts were not a problem- there was nothing left inside! Kind of puts it in some perspective.

It may have been a long road but your almost there.

 

Good luck,

 

DJ

[Robert Horne]

I used a MC, mid 80s Dodge on my 38 for many years, worked good.

The MC was a small bore, from a small Dodge.

I used my original brake/clutch pedals also, just made and adapter

from a piece of angle iron.

I later changed the MC, big bore, 94 Ford Bronco, worked  about

the same as the small bore.     I like the Ford MC better, has one cap,

and easier to see the fluid level.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Robert Horne

[ROB-PA]

Thanks DJ, I guess I just got spoiled working mainly on race cars for 30 some years. Everything was pretty clean and was most likely put together relatively recently. I don't mind a few rusty or damaged bolts, this just seemed to be excessive. I've paged through some of the builds on here and the 35 is definitely ahead in its initial condition from some I have seen. I guess I shouldn't complain. I have been totally amazed at some of the fabricating skills displayed here.

 

Robert, the brake set up looks pretty simple. I assume that you had to fab a mounting adapter and extended rod for the MC? Did you have to modify the brake pedal to clear the MC?

 

Aside from prepping for body removal I have been cleaning sorting all of the miscellaneous parts to see what I need yet.

 

As you can see from the attached picture below I have removed the fabric roof. I will remove the wooden stringers this week. Two a re broken so I will most likely buy a new kit to replace them. I would still rather replace it with steel but I have not found a suitable donor yet.

 

 

[Robert Horne]

On my brake setup, I did not have to modify my brake pedal to clear the MC.

I did modify the MC to clear the brake pedal thought.       
The MC is aluminum, a lot easier to cut.

I will post some photos of the adapter (angle iron), if I can find them..

[Robert Horne]

Here is the Ford Bronco MC I am using...

[Robert Horne]

Roof Panel:

The roof from pickup trucks, extended cab, look like may be good for a replacement panel.

If you go to metal instead of fabric, you would not need to replace the wooden stringers,

since the roofs are rounded for strength.

Depends on what type of headliner you decide on using.       My 37s, and 38s, use steels bows

to hold the liner in place.        I used a blanket from Walmart for my headliner.

Some vehicles like my Jeep have a 1/4 thick styrafoam backing for the liner...

[DJ194950]

My own opinion on replacing a fabric top with a steel insert is to use a ribbed roof section from a station wagon of the late 60's and 70's and retain the factory donor car roof supports to hold shape in the weather/temp. changes plus the added strength

 

Not an easy job for even moderately experienced metal workers bacause of the lenght/width of welded in tops but have seen a few that rolled the edge to  90 degrees and still had a drop in/bolt in roof section. Have my doubts whether I'd give it a go. Sure there are some on this forum that could do it!

 

If you stay with the fabric insert check out- julianos.com-roof insert. They make a nice easy to do at home very nice kit for fabric insert and they have instructions for the install on their website. Overall price for the kit seems to be reasonable at least I think so.

 

Best to luck with this sweet project, 

 

DJ

[ROB-PA]

Yesterday we had some unseasonably mild weather here (50F +) so after the rain stopped I went out to see what I could do in the hour or so that I had. I decided to untarp the 46 truck chassis and running gear and check out the transmission. I removed the driveshaft and pulled the tranny. My first thought was 'Wow it has the same input shaft and spline as the 35!'. Second glance; the release bearing sleeve looks different and wait, I think that the input shaft is shorter. Bottom line, a truck transmission is a truck transmission and a car is a car. No easy swap. The truck tranny is about 1" longer, the input shaft is about 1 1/4" shorter than on the truck tranny and the sleeve is about 1/2" bigger in diameter (sleeve also mounts with 4 bolts vs 3).

 

The good news is that the clutch on the truck appears to use the same spline so it should work with the 35 tranny. Now, at least, I have something to send off to Tenn. Clutch for rebuild.

 

As soon as I get the 37 CBMW out of the other bay and into my basement I will pull the engine from the truck and get it in there on a stand. Hopefully the weather will cooperate again.