Upper control arm assembly help

[JR-39D11]

1939 d11 I tore down the front end as part of my restore and not going back together good.

 

Using the manual  I don't see how I cant get the measurement F anywhere close to 1"   and even if I did the total width of 7" looks completely out of whack . any suggestions?

Edited November 4, 2013 by JR-39D11

[Andydodge]

Gidday from downunder.........pity your not here in Oz, I have a pair of NOS L & R upper arms with the pivots part installed, partly installed as I didn't want to mislay the matching bits........on my 1940 Oz Dodge(basically a 1940 US Plymouth) I replaced the stock style upper arms like you have with a pair of MOOG cast steel 1941-56 style upper arms, these are the "X" style, I used the MOOG 1941-56 upper inner pivots and also the 1941-56 upper outer caster pins......the MOOG pins etc are the same as the stock parts although the MOOG arms are cast steel rather than the stamped steel of the original 1941-56 parts.............the assembly of any of the 1939-56 upper inner pins, bushes and arms is basically the same tho'..........its MUCH easier if you remove the complete upper arm(notating where the outer pin is to reassemble in the same spot to save having to get a new wheel alignment) and place it in a large bench vice, then place the upper pin equidistant to each arm and install the bushes at the same time from each side making sure you keep the arm and pin centered to each other, turn one then turn the other........it maybe worth using plenty of oil/WD40 to lubricate the insides of the bush, in theory it shouldn't need much or any on the bush outside but it won't do any harm and once both bushes are screwed in it shouldn't move, doing both at the same time should get them both bottoming against the arm at the same time..........from memory I have had to redo this once or twice until I got the bushes centred enough that when they are screwed in from either side they bottom against the arm but once you do this once or twice you'll see what has to be done.....lol.............anyway I trust this helps a bit.........if you are doing this whilst the arms are still on the car try and center the pin between both arms, install the bushes equally from both sides a little at a time, it may assist you undo the outer bush from its pins a little to allow the arm to be centred one way or the other.............if possible it is easier on the bench to do this but I understand if you don't have this option...........regards.....Andy Douglas   

[desoto1939]

There are two miller tools that are used to get the correct spacing and also so that you do not  bend in out out the control arms for the upper an lower bushings.

 

Contact me I have the tools.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

[JR-39D11]

Any other things for the front end that the manual doesn't cover well? I took the whole thing apart to the frame?

[Andydodge]

I didn't mention the tools as here in Oz the only tools that Chrysler Australia made available were a brick and a hammer..........I suppose they may have been available here sometime but I haven't seen any in 40yrs of playing with mopars...........lol.............andyd 

[HughForrest]

If anyone is interested, I have a pair of the forged Moog X-style arms mentioned above for the '39 & '40 Dodge & Plymouth that I'd be willing to part with. (Moog # 762 & 763). I got them thinking they would work on my '38 Chrysler, but no such luck.

 

They look like this:

Edited November 7, 2013 by HughForrest

[Andydodge]

That's the suckers I have used, when I rebuilt my 40 Dodge in the early 70's there was a place here in Oz that had those by the dozen, think they cost me about $10 each or some such amount, tried to find some a few yrs ago when I got the 41 plymnouth without success.....they fitted the 40 Dodge using the 41-56 inner pins and bushes, still going strong40yrs later.........lol......wish I was ......lol............andyd

[fstfish66]

If anyone is interested, I have a pair of the forged Moog X-style arms mentioned above for the '39 & '40 Dodge & Plymouth that I'd be willing to part with. (Moog # 762 & 763). I got them thinking they would work on my '38 Chrysler, but no such luck.

 

They look like this:

pm sent   also,,whats involved in this conversion ? any benifits ? thanks in advance

Edited November 22, 2013 by fstfish66

[Andydodge]

I used them on my 1940 Oz Dodge, same front end as 1940 US Dodge & Plymouth.......I used the Moog 41-56 upper arms, 41-56 upper inner pins and bushes which bolted straight onto the 1940 chassis....I also used the 1940 spindle as it has the lower shock mount, 1941-56upper outer bush & pins and 1941-56 stub axle and the original 1940 Dodge lower arm............you could also substitute the original stamped steel 1941-56 upper arms if you can't find the Moog pieces, apart from the material they are basically the same geometry..........all fits and works fine.............andyd

[fstfish66]

andy thansk for the reply,,,  ive  PM,ED    him  to see if they  are still available,,, im not  sure what  all parts your talking about  yet but i have a goood  idea,,,as  im getting ready  to soon  do  a set of fat man  up rights and  new coils,,,is there and  advantage using the 41 thru 56 upper arms  or the moogs  over the  40 upper arms ??  thanks  don

[fstfish66]

andy,,  i just  seen  that  he did  reply and  stil has the  A  arms,,,,question,,do  i have to  use  ??  find ?? other  41 thru  56  parts to  use these ?? are th upper bushings the saem or different ???  and the lowers  i guess stay the same ? u  mentioned pins ?? thanks don

[1948-plymouth]

Hello I am redoing a 1948 Plymouth special deluxe.  I bought the fat man steering kit and olddaddy disc brake kit.  I took everything off the car last night and found my control arms bushing extremely worn. (both upper and lower) I saw you guys were talking about MOOG cast steel 1941-56 style upper arms. I could not find them anywhere to buy. Do you guys have the part numbers? Should I use them? Or try rebuilding the old ones? Also if I rebuild the old ones do I need the special tool the book calls out to use?

[Andydodge]

I've never seen the tools but the workshop manual has the specs.......the 40 upper arms are similar to the 39's and only attach to the upper outer bush from one side whereas the 41-56 hold the upper outer from both side and seems to be a stronger design to me...........the stamped steel stock mopar arms and Moog cast steel arms have the same specs and use the same pins and bushes both on the inner and outer shafts...........I just went with the Moog arms as they appeared to be a much stronger item being cast steel and at the time were cheap and available...........I have seen them, the Moog items, listed on ebay occasionally in the US, and I'd think that unless your original stamped steel arms have wear they are not critical to use......the only time the upper arms of either persuasion will show any wear is if the bushes and/or pins have come loose and have allowed some sort of wear to occur.........so long as your arms stamped or cast are o/k then just use new pins & bushes and away you go.........as they are the same 1941-56 it may pay to check ebay for , say a 1941, 1946, 1951 and 1955 part listing as they maybe listed for a cheaper price.........trust this helps.........andyd    

[fstfish66]

in  my  opinion,  if  i were doing a front end again  i would  use  nos original  parts or  nos moog  parts,,, not the  cheap  knock off stuff the  vendors  sell,,,

 

you can  get  these items  from a place  here in the US  in california  called " rare  parts",,,they  show  pics of each  item,,and description, and price,, they  are not  cheap  by any  meens,,,but this stuff will fit,,and come  with the  proper hard ware,,they  will probably  have the  moog  A arms you speak of also  if you need them,,,shame the  pair  i have for sale  wont  fit  your car i have a pair  of  nos  moog a arms  for a 1940  mopar,,,let us  know how you make out and what you choose to do,,,,,good luck

[Andydodge]

1948Plymouth...........are you sure that your actual upper arms are worn and not just the pins/bushes?.................the upper arms are the same 1941-1956 whether original mopar stamped steel or cast steel like the Moog ones, both Mopar and Moog pins and bushes 1941-56 will fit either mopar or moog arms.........andyd 

[Andydodge]

I found this pic on ebay, this is the same as the Moog parts, maybe even is a Moog part, note how its a solid casting welded thru the area where the upper shock stud goes, this is the same setup as the mopar pressed steel except its the cast steel.......this is what I have had on my car for 40yrs........lol........generally speaking the arms should not ever really need replacing as there is nothing on them that wears, the bushes screw into them tightly to the specific torque and the internal threads in the bushes wear against the external threads on the pins, bit of grease to lubricate and away you go.......andyd