Interesting Oz gearbox & brakes

[Andydodge]

Found this exploded view of the standard 1957/58 Chrysler Royal gearbox and rear brake drum.........have a CLOSE look, lol..........no parking brake on the gearbox AND a parking brake mechanism on the rear brake drum............this is the "standard" model.......there were 3 other models, the 6 with overdrive, 6 with powerflite and V8 with powerflite....these three all had the driveshaft parking brake........odd that the standard model had the more "modern" parking brake....and note also that the exploded view of the gearbox shows the shift mechanism on the US drivers side.........this is incorrect as the actual gearboxes have the shifter mechanism, rods, etc on the OZ drivers or right hand side as you can see in the pics of the gearbox I own..........lol............no wonder its hard to know what was done and why!..........lol........do any US mopars have this setup before 1963?.......andyd

[Andydodge]

So I am right in assuming that no US mopar had this setup b4 1963?...........andyd

[Roger the Dodger]

Andy,I think they are still all in bed fast asleep.

WAKEY WAKEY USA.......lol

Roger.

[Andydodge]

Roger.....were you aware of this gearbox without the handbrake?.........I had never seen nor heard of such an animal in the mopar family till the 1963 stuff, this gearbox was offered to me by a local guy here in Grafton about 6mths ago and initially I thought he was pulling my leg when he said he had a gearbox from a Chrysler Royal that never had a tailshaft handbrake, not even the attachment castings on the side, nothing, zip.....lol......but here it is.......lol........and I couldn't find out any info about exactly where it came from but he maintained he pulled it out of a 57/58 Royal.

It wasn't till last week when I bought the AP1/1957/58 Chrysler Royal Workshop Manual from another source that I saw it myself in black & white print........this gearbox is from the base model......you learn something every day....lol.............andyd

[Andydodge]

......and still not one answer from the Nthn hemisphere.........I would have thought someone over there would have been intrigued by the lack of driveline parking brake..........lol........maybe not........andyd

[B-Watson]

The first North American Mopar car to have the "normal" emergency brake was the 1960 Valiant. The Valiant adopted Bendix brakes instead of the Lockheed brakes. As well, the new A904 Torqueflite for the 1960 Valiant had a park lever, something that the Plymouth and Dart with their Lockheed brakes did not have.

For 1962 the new B-body Plymouth and Dodge Dart adopted Bendix brakes and the Torqueflite had a park lever. Chrysler, Imperial and Dodge 880 were the last to switch to Bendix brakes in 1963.

The Australian Chrysler Royal used imported automatic transmissions, which is why they had the transmission brake. However, Chrysler Australia could use local suppliers for the manual transmission and brakes, which would eliminate the import duties on those parts and reduce costs (and prices).

Wonder who supplied the brakes. They look similar to prewar Lockheed brakes used on the Graham Hollywood (for one) with the wheel cylinder on the side rather that the top.

Bill

Toronto, ON

[Andydodge]

Bill........no offense but the imported gearbox thing is quite well known here BUT have YOU ever seen a US Mopar gearbox that is pre 1963, ie, to suit a full size, not Valiant that did not have the driveshaft parking brake?........I did not know such a thing existed and would be VERY surprised if these were made here in Oz, possible but surprising nevertheless........the brakes are Girlock, at least thats what the master cylinder has cast into it...andyd

[B-Watson]

Bill........no offense but the imported gearbox thing is quite well known here BUT have YOU ever seen a US Mopar gearbox that is pre 1963, ie, to suit a full size, not Valiant that did not have the driveshaft parking brake?........I did not know such a thing existed and would be VERY surprised if these were made here in Oz, possible but surprising nevertheless........the brakes are Girlock, at least thats what the master cylinder has cast into it...andyd

The Chrysler Royal was NOT built in North America, only in Australia. It used a modified 1953-54 Plymouth body and was built on a modified 1953-54 Plymouth chassis. Neither were made in North America after 1954. Australia had their import duties set up to encourage the use of Australian made parts.

You have a Chrysler manual that shows a unique transmission and brake system that was not used on North American cars, and thus could not have been supplied by Chrysler in Detroit. The only logical conclusion is that Chrysler Australia used local suppliers for the standard transmission and the related brake system.

Nash of Canada did something similar when they began building the Nash Statesman in Canada back in 1950. Instead of importing transmissions and brakes, subject to import duties, excise taxes and American dollar trade restrictions, Nash purchased Canadian-built Chevrolet units from GM of Canada. Both Chevrolet and Nash used torque-tube drive which made the units adaptable.

Girlock was a brake and clutch manufacturer in Australia and South Africa (still in business, I believe) and their products were also used on Australian Ford and Holden vehicles. The Australian Girlock manufacturing arm was apparently acquired by PBR while the brake and clutch service centres were acquired by Repco.

As Girlock (Girling + Lockheed ??) supplied Ford and Holden, why not Chrysler?

Any manufacturer markings on the transmission?

[Andydodge]

Bill........lol....I do know that the 1957-62 Chrysler Royal is Oz only........BUT I was curious as to whether any of these unusual gearbox and handbrake setups EVER existed(or a similar arrangement) in the US........

Garvin Farmers book, "Great Ideas in Motion, A History of Chrysler in Australia 1946 to 1981" lists 4575 AP1 Chrysler Royals made in 1957/58, not a huge number but enough I suppose to warrant tooling up for an Oz specific gearbox and rear brakes........andyd

[B-Watson]

Bill........lol....I do know that the 1957-62 Chrysler Royal is Oz only........BUT I was curious as to whether any of these unusual gearbox and handbrake setups EVER existed(or a similar arrangement) in the US........

Garvin Farmers book, "Great Ideas in Motion, A History of Chrysler in Australia 1946 to 1981" lists 4575 AP1 Chrysler Royals made in 1957/58, not a huge number but enough I suppose to warrant tooling up for an Oz specific gearbox and rear brakes........andyd

Tooling would not have been that great. For the transmission all you really needed was to have the spline of the transmission shaft fit into the clutch and the housing bolt up to the bell housing. The only changes internally might be the gear ratios.

For the brakes, you would need unique backing plates and drums but the shoes and wheel cylinders could be shared with other makes. Just need to have the drum diameter and shoe width the same as some other make.

Interesting, and simple, way they activate the parking brake on the Girlock brakes. A lever is pulled by the parking brake cables which forces the brake shoes against the drum. When the parking brake is released, the return springs pull the shoes away from the drum.

Also, the use a normal u-joint behind the transmission instead of the more common, for Mopar, ball and trunnion set up.

[Young Ed]

Tooling would not have been that great. For the transmission all you really needed was to have the spline of the transmission shaft fit into the clutch and the housing bolt up to the bell housing. The only changes internally might be the gear ratios.

For the brakes, you would need unique backing plates and drums but the shoes and wheel cylinders could be shared with other makes. Just need to have the drum diameter and shoe width the same as some other make.

Interesting, and simple, way they activate the parking brake on the Girlock brakes. A lever is pulled by the parking brake cables which forces the brake shoes against the drum. When the parking brake is released, the return springs pull the shoes away from the drum.

Also, the use a normal u-joint behind the transmission instead of the more common, for Mopar, ball and trunnion set up.

Also they didn't know they'd only sell 4575 of them when the tooling was being made. They may have hoped/predicted larger sales amounts.

[Roger the Dodger]

Roger.....were you aware of this gearbox without the handbrake?.........I had never seen nor heard of such an animal in the mopar family till the 1963 stuff, this gearbox was offered to me by a local guy here in Grafton about 6mths ago and initially I thought he was pulling my leg when he said he had a gearbox from a Chrysler Royal that never had a tailshaft handbrake, not even the attachment castings on the side, nothing, zip.....lol......but here it is.......lol........and I couldn't find out any info about exactly where it came from but he maintained he pulled it out of a 57/58 Royal.

It wasn't till last week when I bought the AP1/1957/58 Chrysler Royal Workshop Manual from another source that I saw it myself in black & white print........this gearbox is from the base model......you learn something every day....lol.............andyd

Sorry I am a newbie to Old Chrysler products. My '52 Dodge is the first one.

Had Valiants before.

Roger.

[Andydodge]

Roger.....its pleasing that you have seen the light........lol..........andyd

[57Royal]

Sorry to drag up a 2 year old thread, but I own a 1957 Royal with the 3 speed manual Overdrive transmission.

 

I believe my Royal is factory stock and it has the park brake on the rear of the transmission....

So now I wonder if it was changed sometime in the 1957/1958 year.

 

Mine still has rag tyres on it and is showing 95,764 miles. It may have been around the clock a few times, but with rag tyres on it I am guessing maybe not.

 

These are based on the 1953 Plymouth Cranbrook chassis and shell. I think Dodge Kingsway and a couple of other cars were the same.

The dead giveaway is the rear doors. They have the unique curved quarter glass.

 

I think the USA equivalent was P25?

Ours were AP1, AP2 and AP3 for Australian Production 1, 2 and 3. I have also read that some believe the AP to actually mean Australian Plymouth. The first one sounds correct to me.

 

 

The aussie cars got a wraparound rear windscreen and the front and rear quarters were locally designed and built with the fins on the rear and our unique grill and headlight arrangement.

Aussie cars got the 25" long block Canadian and English KEW engines.

 

Mine has a 251ci Kew engine.

[Andydodge]

57 Royal.........the yanks still haven't answered my original question.......did ANY US mopar have this rear brake and/or parking/emergency brake setup before 1962......this was only on the Oz standard six and 3speed standard gearbox........your overdrive setup will have the gearbox mounted handbrake and the shifter linkage on the Oz passenger side..........see the pic I posted at the top..........andyd

[B-Watson]

No, the style of brakes used on the Chrysler Royal with the emergency brake on the rear wheels was not used by any North American-built Mopar product.

 

In North America Chrysler had two suppliers of drum brakes - Lockheed and Bendix.  The Lockheed brakes had the emergency brake behind the transmission while the Bendix version had the emergency brakes on the rear wheels.   But the Bendix set up was not similar to the Australian Girlock set up.  The Bendix brake set up had the wheel cylinders at the 12 o clock position and used a lever and strut to force the brakes shows against the drums. 

 

In North America Bendix brakes were used on all A bodies starting 1960, all B bodies starting 1962, C bodies starting 1963 and D bodies starting 1963.  The A and B bodies never used Lockheed brakes.

 

As for the 1957 Chrysler Royal with the transmission brake, it may be an early production model using up items gathering dust in the factory.  

 

Chrysler in Detroit and Windsor built thousands of 1954 chassis units for export, virtually all going to Australia,  These units were used for the 1954 and 1955 model years.   1956 models had different serial numbers so I suspect the chassis were built in Australia.  And, as all 1956 serial numbers start higher than 1 the Australian chassis were probably phased in late 1955. 

 

1954 Plymouth P25-2 (Windsor) - 3.588  (96,073,001 to 96,088,05)

1954 Plymouth P25-3 (Detroit) - 2.031  (13,506,001 to 13,829,336)

1954 Dodge D49-2 (Windsor) - 1,680  (98,068,001 to 98,080,956)

 

Chassis production was mixed with the regular production, no separate serial numbers are available.  Same for the engine numbers below.  Also note the source of engines. 

 

1954 Plymouth Cranbrook (P25-2) - P25-9612C & up  (3-3/8 bore)   96,077,017 & up (CDN P25-2)

1954 Plymouth Savoy (P25-3) - KEW-2P-1037 & up   (3-7/16)    13,683,707 & up   (USA P25-3)

 

1955 Pymouth Cranbrook (P25-2) - P25-453846 & up   (3-1/4 bore)   13,798,161 & up  (USA P25-3)

1955 Plymouth Savoy (P25-3) -

1955 Plymouth Belvedere (P25-4) - KEW-2PF-600 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   13,743,652 & up  (USA P25-3)

 

1956 Plymouth Cranbrook (P25-2) - P25-328761 & up   (3-1/4 bore)   2911 & up

1956 Plymouth Savoy (P25-3) - KEW-2P-3062 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   795 & up

1956 Plymouth Belvedere (P25-4) - KEW-2PF-2662 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   801 & up

 

 

1954 DeSoto Diplomat Custom (SP25-2) - SP25-1002C & up  (3-3/8 bore) 96,077,276 & up (CDN P25-2)

1955 DeSoto Diplomat Plaza (SP25-4) -

 

1955 DeSoto Diplomat Custom (SP25-2) - SP25-406415 & up   (3-1/4 bore)   13,796,883 & up  (USA P25-3)

1955 DeSoto Diplomat Regent (SP25-3) - KEW-2P-1063 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   13,683,776 & up  (USA P25-3)

1955 DeSoto Diplomat Plaza (SP25-4) - KEW-2PF-564 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   13,772,670 & up  (USA P25-3)

 

1956 DeSoto Diplomat Custom (P26) - P26-316706 & up   (3-1/4 bore)   1427 & up

1956 DeSoto Diplomat Regent (SP25-3) - KEW-2P-3034 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   486 & up

1956 DeSoto Diplomat Plaza (SP25-4) - KEW-2PF-2835 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   558 & up

 

 

1955 Dodge Kingsway Custom (D49-2) - D49-2-1965C & up   (3-3/8 bore)   98,070,231 & up   (CDN D49-2)

1954 Dodge Kingsway Crusader (D49-3) - KEW-2P-1017 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   13,683,741 & up  (USA P25-2)

 

1955 Dodge Kingsway Custom (D49-2) - DP25-417054 & up   (3-1/4 bore)  13,796,981 & up  (USA P25-3)

1955 Dodge Kingsway Crusader (D49-3) - KEW-2P-1569 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   13,772,594 & up  (USA P25-3)

1955 Dodge Kingsway Coronet (D49-4) - KEW-2PF-585 & up  (3-7/16 bore)   13,743,766 & up  (USA P25-3)

 

1956 Dodge Kingsway Custom (D49-2) - P26-328765 & up   (3-1/4 bore)  2973 & up

1956 Dodge Kingsway Crusader (D49-3) - KEW-2P-2943 & up   (3-7/16 bore)   706 & up

1956 Dodge Kingsway Coronet (D49-4) - KEW-2PF-2966 & up  (3-7/16 bore)   967 & up 

 

 

1957 Chrysler Royal (AP1-2) - P30-10580 & up   (3-1/4 bore)   AP1-2-216 & up

1957 Chrysler Royal (AP1-3) - KEW-2P-4233 & up  (3-3/8 bore)   AP1-3-7 & up

1957 Chrysler Royal (AP1-4) - KEW-2PF-5276 & up  (3-3/8 bore)   AP1-4-181 & up

 

By the way, the proposed Chrysler Royal was originally to be sold as a Plymouth (AP-1), Dodge Kingsway (AD-1) and DeSoto Diplomat (AS-1), each with unique grilles as in previous years.  But, the decision was made to market only one version, the Chrysler Royal, and as model AP-1.    Thus Australian Plymouth became Australian Production.

[Andydodge]

Bill.........the weird thing is that this gearbox and rear brake setup only appears from 1957-62 on the standard, base model Royal, quite strange really why Oz Chrysler didn't introduce this earlier........btw, have you seen the Gavin Farmer book on Oz Chrysler?............I have it and its a bit of a disappointment............lol.........hopefully Eddie Ford's Chrysler book will cover better..........andyd