New front disc brakes, front end rebuild, steering rebuild for the '38 Plymouth

[Niel Hoback]

The guide pin is also a rivet.

[deathbound]

The guide pin is also a rivet.

Thanks, thought so, just wanted confirmation.

[yourpc48]

I too removed the rivs and pin/rivs from the rear and had no problem. I ground mine flat and then had to dril them the rest of the way out. I didnt bother to rivit them back on. The hub will center up the drum when you put it back on. Just like a newer style rear end. I have mag wheels on my car and the rivs would have interefered like the front end. I had to drill 5 countersink holes in the front wheels to get them on right. I might end up doing a disk brake conversion later and eliminate the problem all together.

[deathbound]

While I'm waiting for the "correct" hub puller for the rear drums & before I remove the rivets as a last resort, thought I would drop the gas tank.

This is what I found (part of the cork float) after draining the fuel thru the filler neck.

By dtw62hd at 2011-12-29

This confirms my thoughts why the fuel gauge never worked. I guess I'm adding a sending unit to my list. There was also a lot of rust in the bottom of the tank....time to clean the inside & paint the outside while I'm at it.

[deathbound]

There's no more truth than the the saying "the right tool for the job". Got my hub puller...the "correct" type, in the mail today. I immediately installed it on the driver's side & after beating on it til it had no more, it popped off. The passenger side was next & a carbon copy of the driver's side. This is the driver's side.

Oh yeah...HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Edited January 1, 2012 by deathbound

[deathbound]

As seen in the first pic, I was using a small sleever bar (used in iron work for connecting iron), anyway, I was using it to toggle the hub puller & keep the drum from turning while hitting the striking part of the hub puller. Every once in a while, it would drop & I would have to replace it. The last time it dropped, as I went to replace it, the passenger drum let loose right next my ear! Yes, I kept the axle nuts on for safety. This is the passenger side.

[Robert Horne]

I rebuilt my 38 wheel cylinders years ago. They have a different size

cup on each end, I guess to compensate for the all the shoes being the

same size. I believe I ended up with 3 different cup sizes, 2 on the front,

and 2 on the rear. The smaller cup on the front, was the same size as the

larger cup on the rear. This would compensate not having a

proprotioning valve, having a little more braking on the front.

[yourpc48]

As seen in the first pic, I was using a small sleever bar (used in iron work for connecting iron), anyway, I was using it to toggle the hub puller & keep the drum from turning while hitting the striking part of the hub puller. Every once in a while, it would drop & I would have to replace it. The last time it dropped, as I went to replace it, the passenger drum let loose right next my ear! Yes, I kept the axle nuts on for safety. This is the passenger side.

I see a lot of wet there. I was wondering if that was brake fluid or axle oil. Since you were able to get the hubs off bearings and seals might be in order. At least you can get to your bearing to lightly grease it. I had to grease mine from the bolt on the housing.

[deathbound]

What kind of rotors, and calipers did you use?. My stock brakes with 86 Dodge MC is working good on my 38 Coupe. On my 37 Coupe project, I would like to try the disc set up on front, Ranger rearend, 230 Dodge engine or a 201 Plymouth engine with a 5speed Ranger transmission. I have the 230 engine, but ran into a friend with a 38 Coupe that has a 39 engine he does not want.

Robert, I was reading through the thread & realized I never answered your question.

Rotors:78-87 Mopar

Calipers:GM 78-87 Chevy Caprice or similar

I see a lot of wet there. I was wondering if that was brake fluid or axle oil. Since you were able to get the hubs off bearings and seals might be in order. At least you can get to your bearing to lightly grease it. I had to grease mine from the bolt on the housing.

I think it was brake fluid, the passenger side was really wet, as seen in the first pic, driver side, not so bad. Both sides had one shoe that was missing about 2" of the lining & I didn't find any evidence of the missing pieces inside when the drum came off. All bearings & seals will be replaced, wheel cylinders re-sleeved/rebuilt or replaced.

This is my first time doing a drum brake job to this extent on one of these cars, so any advice, tips, etc are always greatly appreciated.

Edited January 2, 2012 by deathbound

[Robert Horne]

On my 38s and 37s, the brake shoe linings are the same in length, and the

brake cylinders have different cup sizes, from one end to the other.

On more modern cars, shoe linings have one lining shorter than the second

lining, but the brake cylinder has the same size cups.

I bought ford brakes shoes, took the lining off, and installed onto my

38 shoes.

[Robert Horne]

Robert, I was reading through the thread & realized I never answered your question.

Rotors:78-87 Mopar

Calipers:GM 78-87 Chevy Caprice or similar

Thanks for the info. I did several searchs here to see the different

parts people are using on the disc set up. I see why the GM Calipers

are popular, they cost about $10, and pads are about $10.

[deathbound]

I had my rear wheel cylinders re-sleeved with stainless steel by these guys:http://www.brakeplace.com/. Took 10 days from the day I sent them to the day I received them....highly recommend them. Here are a few pics:

Before any work done (forgot to take a pic of the few pits in each cylinder):

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-21

Cleaned up & re-sleeved:

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-21

Painted with VHT caliper paint, baked @250* for an hour, & THEN rebuilt:

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-21

Inside with new stainless sleeve (say goodbye to pitting FOREVER):

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-21

Still need to blast & paint the backing plates, have the drums turned, shoes re-lined & arced to the drums. Luckily, there is a local shop...http://www.chtopping.com/, that can do this work-so no expensive shipping involved. New inner axle seals will also be installed.

Edited January 22, 2012 by deathbound

[Frank Elder]

That looks great, thanks for sharing the 2 links.

[deathbound]

Dropped off my shoes & drums today, picked them up 2 hours later......$72.50 OTD, this is what I have....drums turned, shoes exchanged & arced to each drum.

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-23

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-23

I have a question....does the arrow on the pivot (bottom right) mean anything? Only 1 of 4 had it. I didn't notice it til I cleaned them up.

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-23

Also, is this the "correct" electrical tape for our Plymouths? It is Made In USA.

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-23

[deathbound]

I have a question....does the arrow on the pivot (bottom right) mean anything? Only 1 of 4 had it. I didn't notice it til I cleaned them up.

By dtw62hd at 2012-01-23

Anybody?????

[james curl]

Yes, my manual says to make sure the arrows point away from the heels of the shoes they control.

[Niel Hoback]

I believe they point to the high point on the cam. You start your adjustment with the arrows pointed in to move all the shoes as far from the drum as possible, and then adjust outward.

Its not a bad idea to file marks on the heads to indicate the high side if there are no arrows.

[Robert Horne]

The ones on my 38 do not have arrows, but do have the lobes to turn and move the shoes a little.....

[deathbound]

Yes, my manual says to make sure the arrows point away from the heels of the shoes they control.

I believe they point to the high point on the cam. You start your adjustment with the arrows pointed in to move all the shoes as far from the drum as possible, and then adjust outward.

Its not a bad idea to file marks on the heads to indicate the high side if there are no arrows.

Exactly the info I was looking for. I will use the 1 with the arrow & engrave an arrow on the other 3 to match. Thanks again.

[yourpc48]

Exactly the info I was looking for. I will use the 1 with the arrow & engrave an arrow on the other 3 to match. Thanks again.

While your at it, several old timers have told me (and I did this) to slot the back of the bolt with a thin angle grinder cross wise from the hole for the cotter pin. This gives you a way of adjusting the brakes without pulling off the drum. You can loosen the nut and turn the cam bolt with a screwdriver then tighten the nut while holding the bolt from turning with the screwdriver. Works pretty good. Just have a heavy duty screwdriver and wrench handy to do the deed.

Just a suggestion to help make brake work a little easier later. Has anyone else done this with their cam bolts on the brakes?

[deathbound]

While your at it, several old timers have told me (and I did this) to slot the back of the bolt with a thin angle grinder cross wise from the hole for the cotter pin. This gives you a way of adjusting the brakes without pulling off the drum. You can loosen the nut and turn the cam bolt with a screwdriver then tighten the nut while holding the bolt from turning with the screwdriver. Works pretty good. Just have a heavy duty screwdriver and wrench handy to do the deed.

Just a suggestion to help make brake work a little easier later. Has anyone else done this with their cam bolts on the brakes?

Fortunately, the back of the cam bolts have 2 flats, so I guess I can loosen the nut & with an adjustable wrench, turn the cam bolts to adjust. My bolts do not have cotter pins (or a hole for one). Thanks for tip.

Edited January 26, 2012 by deathbound

[yourpc48]

Ahhh. I wonder why they switched from those to the ones on my P15? They look the same except I dont have the notches thus the slot trick.

[deathbound]

Got a little more done lately. Backing plates media blasted, painted & baked, mounted with all hardware, wheel cylinders, shoes, & new axle seals. Backing plates had quite a bit of pitting...imagine that. Need to media blast the drums so I can paint & bake them, then I get to try out my new to me AMMCO 1750 brake gauge. Instructions seem pretty straight forward, if anybody has any secrets, I'm all ears. Aside from that, need to bend new brake lines at the rear axle, install the cleaned out fuel tank, a few other minor details, & I should be good to go.

Edited February 3, 2012 by deathbound

[yourpc48]

Looks great man. Did you use a little sil glyde on the moving parts to keep them from binding?

[yourpc48]

Sending unit. I dont know if you have taken care of your problem yet but here is one that is on my watch list. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330502353401?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I have other things to do before I replace this but I hope to get one eventually so I dont have to keep that 2 gallon gas jug in the trunk.......