230 crank hole/218 pilot bushing

[james curl]

Who here on the Forum is going to explain to Michael that if the crank that he bought was from a Dodge fluid drive car he will have to purchase a 218 pilot bushing and take the 230 crank to a machine shop and have the hole for the pilot bushing in the crank enlarged to fit the pilot bushing for the 218 overdrive or a standard three speed from a non fluid drive car. Pete "Blue skies" Anderson cannot do this as he used a crank and rods from Vintage Power Wagon. The Power Wagon comes with a clutch on flywheel driven transmission,non fluid drive. I am not sure that I am up to it, even though I brought the issue up. This has been discussed in detail in different post at different times when it discovered after the engine was assembled and a bushing had to be turned down or a correct bushing ordered. One must know the inside diameter of the fluid drive crank hole and the amount of interference fit that is required to keep it from turning in the crankshaft when installed in order to purchase the correct bushing or modify a 218 bushing.

[michael.warshaw]

i am so confused with what im doing, for some reason, on the crank shaft which i have the (230 crank), the stud doesnt fit tightly there 10,000 of a inch of play.

next vpw says i have a odd ball crank i need to verify that i either do or dont.

bolts [/img]

[Don Coatney]

Who here on the Forum is going to explain to Michael that if the crank that he bought was from a Dodge fluid drive car he will have to purchase a 218 pilot bushing and take the 230 crank to a machine shop and have the hole for the pilot bushing in the crank enlarged to fit the pilot bushing for the 218 overdrive or a standard three speed from a non fluid drive car. Pete "Blue skies" Anderson cannot do this as he used a crank and rods from Vintage Power Wagon. The Power Wagon comes with a clutch on flywheel driven transmission,non fluid drive. I am not sure that I am up to it, even though I brought the issue up. This has been discussed in detail in different post at different times when it discovered after the engine was assembled and a bushing had to be turned down or a correct bushing ordered. One must know the inside diameter of the fluid drive crank hole and the amount of interference fit that is required to keep it from turning in the crankshaft when installed in order to purchase the correct bushing or modify a 218 bushing.

Good point James! I also wonder who will explain this? Not me, as I have tried to splain things in the past but I will no longer do so. I have passed my torch to others who are much more qualified than me to do the splainen;) Hopefully they will now jump in.

[michael.warshaw]

[james curl]

Michael, from that last post you made, I do not have a clue on what you are wanting to know without some text to go with the picture. The hole in the question that I poised is the hole in the center of the flange, not around the edges of the flange. The bolts that you have pictured in the previous post go into the flywheel from the clutch side then into the crankshaft flange and the nuts go on the engine side of the flange. I hope that answers your previous question about the bolts. The flat side of the bolt head fits against the side of the recess in the flywheel and prevents the bolts from turning when the nuts are tightened.

Edited May 19, 2010 by james curl
spelling check

[michael.warshaw]

i am putting a overdrive tranny, that is used on a 230 engine so im guessing i would not have to enlarge that hole.

[james curl]

If you are using a Overdrive from a non fluid drive car going into a 230 crankshaft from a fluiid drive car you will have this problem. Is your 230 crankshaft from a fluid drive car, if it is I rest my case, it will not accept the 218 pilot bushing. The fluid drive cars have the clutch on the transmission side of the fluid drive unit and the pilot bushing goes in there, not into the crankshaft.

[michael.warshaw]

ok so you are correct because its a 3 spd od tranny, and i believe most or all of the 230 cranks shafts were from dodges with fluid drive that is why it has 8 holes.

so what do i do?

[james curl]

You can take the crankshaft and a new 218 pilot bearing to a competent machinist and have him look up the interference fit requirement and place the crank in his lath and bore the hole to the correct size or you can take him the crankshaft and the Overdrive transmission to him so he can make a bronze bushing the correct size and interference fit and still allow the transmission input shaft to turn freely.

[Don Coatney]

so what do i do?

I may be banned for life but I once again suggest a mock up.

[michael.warshaw]

ok will try that thanks mr curl.

[james curl]

Michael, I have gone as far as my vocabulary will allow me on this post. I have tried to make it clear in language that I understand which is not always the best. Every time I had to write a technical article at work the Engineers would always rewrite as I tend to be a bit wordy and redundant in my instructions. I know some here on the forum have already had this problem by prior postings on an assembled engine and maybe one of them will pipe up and help by explaining what they did to solve the problem.

[james curl]

Michael, would you be willing to print all of the answers to all of your posts and make files of them then give them to the people who will be doing the work for you? That way they can deem which answers are appropriate to solve the problem that you posted the question about. They could then tell you what information they will require to solve the problems that have not been provided so that someone here on the Forum could post the required information.

[michael.warshaw]

im debating on sticking with 218 it steams like the reward is not worth the effort, ill just throw in the od tranny with the stock 218, im leaning toward this now cuase i dont see this ever working.

thanks for your replies.

[Jim Yergin]

Michael,

This thread shows how I addressed the problem James Curl is referring to:

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=8604&highlight=bushing

Jim Yergin

[dezeldoc]

Michael, your crank is out of a truck motor, non fluid drive.

[Merle Coggins]

Here's a pic of the end of my crankshaft. Notice the lack of bushing in the center hole. This is a 218 crank used with Fluid Drive for my truck. This is an OEM truck crank. Have a look at the pilot bore in your crank. If there's a bushing in there it most likely was used with a standard clutch and trans and will be fine for your desired setup. If in doubt take it to your trans and see if the end of the trans input shaft fits snuggly into the pilot bushing in the end of your crank.

[Merle Coggins]

Michael,

I believe it's been mentioned here before, but those bolts won't be tight in the crank flange. On the 230 engine the bolts go in the other way. Put the bolt through from the flywheel side, then through the crank flange with the nuts between the flywheel flange and the rear main seal. The bolts should be an interference fit in the flywheel but will be a looser fit through the crank flange.

Here's a pic of what it would look like installed. Notice the nuts between the crank flange and the back of the engine. This is my Fluid Drive setup, but it would be the same with a flywheel.

Merle

i am so confused with what im doing, for some reason, on the crank shaft which i have the (230 crank), the stud doesnt fit tightly there 10,000 of a inch of play.

next vpw says i have a odd ball crank i need to verify that i either do or dont.

bolts [/img]

[wayfarer]

I'll add two thoughts;

1. The bolts are only there to keep the flywheel out of your lap. The flywheel registration is on the flange OD. Bolts can be a bit 'sloppy'.

2. If there is an issue with the pilot and how to fix it, then take both cranks to a good auto machine shop and say these words: "make this one look like that one"...

last thought...please reduce you photo sizes or, at least crop the image...