jmooner3 Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 OK I'm into the brakes on my truck now. I pulled front and inspected, all looks great, new pads, new wheel cyl, drums look to have been machined recently...Also have new hoses to them. I lubed bearings and reinstalled. Now as for the back...? I pulled the wheel, took off the nuts on the hub cover and read in the shop manual to screw bolts into the cap to pop it off. What size screw? What will I find in there, anything to be careful of flying out or losing..? I just want to pop off the drum to inspect, replace pads or correct any other issues in there. Advice welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 You might find the advice I got helpful. http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=19905 I completed my complete brake system rebuild a couple of weeks ago so it's pretty fresh in my mind I might not be as knowledgeable as some on the forum, but I'll help if I can. Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 OK I'm into the brakes on my truck now. I pulled front and inspected, all looks great, new pads, new wheel cyl, drums look to have been machined recently...Also have new hoses to them. I lubed bearings and reinstalled. Now as for the back...? I pulled the wheel, took off the nuts on the hub cover and read in the shop manual to screw bolts into the cap to pop it off. What size screw?What will I find in there, anything to be careful of flying out or losing..? I just want to pop off the drum to inspect, replace pads or correct any other issues in there. Advice welcome! I think the bolts are 3/8 , The axle comes out with the the cap . Nothing pops out but you will have to remove the outer seal, 2 nuts ,a bearing some washers, you need the correct axle nut wrench I forget the size I think 2 9/16" or the alternate method is a chisel or screw driver. After that the drum comes off If you replace the seals NAPA # rear inner 28116 outer 20766. Wheel cylinders should be the same as the front I use raybestos 3595,3596 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 To get to the brakes I'm pretty sure you do not have to pull the axle. On my 3 ton, you take off the wheels, then there are some flathead screws exposed. Remove those, then the drum should come off. Mine was pretty rusted on. A lot of PB Blaster and time, along with a lot of hammering on the face where the wheel lays against the drum will eventually work it loose. I'm not certain yours will be exactly the same, but I'd be surprised if it was not very similar. On mine, there were also some places around it where you could pry through a slot. When I was having trouble getting mine off I went to our local Dodge garage (it still existed then!) and talked the best truck mechanic, who I'd gotten to know a little bit. I asked how I get it off, it didn't seem to want to come loose. He said he'd take a big hammer and pound on the face (like I described). He said if it didn't come loose, he'd get (forget the name, but pointed at the other end of the shop at this really big guy) because he could hit it a lot harder. Just keep pounding, he said. He was right. Post a picture and we can be sure. Gene G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 (edited) You gotta pull the axles. The drum is behind the hub flange with the 6 lug bolt studs holding it to the hub. Bob Edited March 6, 2010 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Yep, them axle shafts gotta come out, 'tis a chore and ya really need one of them thar axle nut sockets to do it without bleedin'n cussin'. I think the last time I pulled the rear drums, it took about an hour with the right tools. Luckily, the paper thin gasket that's between the hub & the axle shaft flange leaked, so I didn't need to use the jack bolts to back it out. I used a sharp gasket scraper to wedge the flange off the hub, then a pry bar to pop it loose from the differential. When using the jack bolts, remember to alternate between bolts, turning about 1/6 at first, then 1/4, and so on. I turned the brake adjusting cam a half turn to get the brake shoes off the drum, it helps to get a little wiggle room when handling them big dudes. When installing the axle shafts, I made new paper gaskets, but they leaked. So maybe next time around I'm gonna put some RTV on that to keep that nice & clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Darn, they really build the one ton like that? I have 1 ton Fargo I still have to pick up, it'll need brakes. Guess I'm going to be faced with this. I sure thought it would be the same design as my 3 ton. I thought Ford was the only one that did it this dumb way. Gene G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooner3 Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Thanks - I'm thinking maybe I will get all the new lines bent and get some juice in the system and just see if the back brakes are working...Seems like a good point for don't fix it til you know it's broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Thanks - I'm thinking maybe I will get all the new lines bent and get some juice in the system and just see if the back brakes are working...Seems like a good point for don't fix it til you know it's broke. I would pull the drums its not that hard and when I removed my rear drums on one side the shoe lining fell off, the glue or what ever was used to bond the lining must have dried out also the wheel cylinders were in poor condition. The front brakes were ok but I also replaced them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 I agree, the hidden condition can be a real stinker. Dad told me that it was always cheaper to inspect beforehand in the barn rather than pick up the pieces in the ditch afterwards. My brake linings were stuck to the drum, wheel cylinder rubber was hard as a rock, and one of the shoe return springs was broke. I ended up rebuilding the whole axle: seals, bearings, wheel cylinders, shoes & springs...relatively cheap insurance knowing what all has been done and not guessing as to what might need doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooner3 Posted March 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well I agree with the hidden condition stinking! Mine is not a hidden conditon anymore, I bent new lines replaced hoses bled the lines and after a couple pedal pushes no pressure...I knew ther'd be a mess by one of the connections.... shure enough big puddles at both rear wheels and juice still flowing out of the brake backer plate! I suspect both wheel cylinders popped and puked thier goods all over inside the drum and on pads. We'll the good news is I'll have a look at the back brakes. I could use a bit more help on the process. I think I understand the axles need to come out with the hub flange. Do I need to open the differential and disconnect anything? Or is this all from the hub side? "Oldmopar" filled me in on the need for ..outer seal, 2 nuts ,a bearing some washers, and I need the correct axle nut wrench...He thought 2 9/16" Any good ideas on how to clean up a pint of brake fluid off the garage floor? THanks for your help guys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 The axle shafts are bolted to the hubs, the hubs are retained by the large axle nut. The axle shaft splines are not held in place at the differential. Feel free to remove the axle cover to see how much sludge is in thar and maybe give it a good rinsing out with parts cleaner. I recall draining the gear oil out of the '49 & refilling with diesel. I let it sit for a week, then put the rear axle on jack stands, fired up the motor, put it in 1st, and let the differential gears slosh the diesel around in the case for about 15-20 minutes or so to agitate like a clothes washer. When I drained it out & pulled the rear cover, it got almost all of the crud out, so rebuilding the differential was a snap afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooner3 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Thanks! 2 -3/8 jacking screws pushed the hub right off, punch and hammer to spin off the nut, hub and axle shafts came out easy. Brake shoes look good, spring is red and looks new? Wheel cyl rusted and spent. I have two new ones in a bag that came with the truck. Seems like it was meant to be. Are they left and right? how to tell? The paper seal ripped and the inner seal the one all the way at the back of the inner bearing (flip the whole drum over and there is what looks like a dust seal on the outside of the inner bearning) it is dry-rotted. So it's looking like I need a paper seal and that inner dust seal (#28116) to continue my quest for stoppage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 The inner and out seals are available at NAPA. I made my own axle gaskets out of gasket material. If you can't find the gaskets, you can use the outer seal as a pattern for it. I put the gaskets on dry so they should be reusable if I ever need to go in there again. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 The number for the flange gasket is 4390 as I recall you need 2 per side. The seal may come with one gasket maybe both I think it depends who makes it. Also be sure to clean repack and check the bearings (replace if necessary) I found the the holes in the flange were packed with crud so I cleaned them out and chased the threads before before using them to remove the flange. You need about 3 feet for the axle half's so be sure you are not too close to a wall when you remove the axles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooner3 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Thanks guys got one wheel apart and only need the inner seal there. The other wheel clearly got a good drink of water and is rusted inside. I suspect it'l need bearnings (Haven't found a source yet) I bought the inner seals from Roberts today. Still need the gaskets, and I need the locking ring (the one with the tab and the holes to lock the outter bearing nut) the tab is gone and it's in rough shape. The nut is in rough shape too but I think re-useable. Anyone have an extra lock ring or nut or know of a source for the ring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 I have got the bearings through rockauto there are timpkin bearings napa should also have them. I thought I saved the part #'s can't find it now but will look in the garage tomorrow I think the empty boxes are still in the truck. Vintage power wagons should have the other parts your need if you cannot find them someplace else. They are not the cheapest source but they have most everything except the brake shoes for the rear. The shoes for the early power wagons are almost the the same as our but I think a 1/4" smaller in width Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooner3 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 :confused:I popped the bearings iout of the passenger side - Timken and the numbers on the bearings are 2984 (Outter) and 28682 (Inner). I found them at Autozone ~$20 inner and $40 for the outter. Still working on getting the Drivers side off - bearning nut is froze to the shaft - PB blaster soaking as I type... Question for the gurus. Rear Brake Cylinders - I have two new ones in my parts box that came with the truck - they are no longer in boxes but there are two bags with different part numbers on themjust like "Oldmopar" said(9375/9376). I've heard there is a left and right...? I pulled the Pass side cyl and popped off the rubber to reveal diff size pistons I can only assume the drivers side is opposite config to also put the bigger piston in the rear...? The parts I have are both the same not opposite and I don't yet have the other side off to see if they are different. Does it matter if the big or small piston is to the back? I still need a source for the retaining ring (the one with the tab and a bunch of holes that receive the stud on the outter bearing nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) The large cylinder bore faces the rear of the vehicle, small cylinder bore side faces the front is the way it was explained to me. Try VPW for the lock ring and nut see link below http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/13wheels.pdf Edited March 10, 2010 by oldmopar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooner3 Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Does anyone else need a dozen? I just need 1 and if the price is right I'll have a bunch to give back to the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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