Rewiring - Update #4 - "The problem remains...also more questions"

[boxer_inv]

Hi

Well, still no luck with the starting problem unfortunately...

I took on board some of the suggestions - rewired the ignition to how it was when I took it apart - still no turn over, just click of the solenoid as before. I've also multi-metered the majority of connections under the dash - all are working as per wiring diagram as far as I can test out.

On a positive note, all of the lights are now working including the instrument lights! All I have left to do is connect the indicator unit under the dash, and reinstall the park/indicator lights on the front of the car. Oh, and at some stage do the pillar switches and interior dome light, but that might be a better job for when the headlining comes out...

Couple of questions:

Fuel Gauge: Based on the wiring diagram I'm reading, the fuel gauge on the dash should receive power as soon as the ignition switch is on and therefore the gauge should start to read the fuel level based on the resistance that the fuel sender is giving out. This should happen immediately, yes? Seems that my gauge is not giving a reading (though it was wildly inaccurate prior to my re-wiring). I have the 2 wire unit - where is the 'ground' for these units - to the body at the sending unit itself?

Horn relay: I have one that has 3 terminal posts & wires. Wiring diagrams that I have all indicate 4 post relays, with one of the wires running from the relay directly to the coil. What is the purpose of this wire to coil? Also on the horn circuit, when the horn ring on the steering wheel is pressed, does this ENGAGE a contact to complete a circuit, or DISENGAGE a contact to open a circuit? (I've tried to work this out in my head, but seems I've run out of beer to allow the thought process to conclude...)

Again guys, all assistance really appreciated - especially any more ideas on why this old girl won't turn over now....thanks.

Rob.

[greg g]

Make sure your starter is well grounded, the horn button completes the circuit to ground. It is the wire the comes out of the steering box near the bottom should have a butt connector on it of some type. If you think you need to change that wirem do it by attaching the new wire to the old at the steering wheel end, then pull the needed lenght of new wire down through the column by pulling out the old wire from the steering box end. I believe the wire from the coil to the Horn relay was to power it with ign on only. Don't have my digram in front of me but the three wire relay would be power in for the switch, power in from the bat (10 or 12 gauge wire) and then power to the horns through a split connection or two wires. the relay should be self grounded to complete the low side power in.

Will the starter spin if you connect jumper cables to the starter side of the relay???

From the bat in the car, run the ground wire, then just touch the starter cable from the starter rely with the other cable. If the starter doesn't engage then, the fault might be the starter itself.

[Don Coatney]

Is your battery fully charged and in good condition? I weak battery will still light the lamps but will not have enough reserve to spin the engine.

[stylinmike]

He tried boosting the battery overnight with no luck. I agree tho, still sounds like a battery issue. Either that or my money is on the starter being toast or it's ground.

The wire from the horn relay to the coil is just a daisy chain back to the ignition switch. It would be the same as running it straight to the ignition switch. Also, make sure you aren't confusing the voltage regulator and the horn relay, as the voltage reg also has 3 terminals. Not saying you are, but just throwing the comment out there to be sure.

Back to the starter, for the amount of work it is, I would just pull the starter and bench test it. Then work backward from there.

[Don Coatney]

He tried boosting the battery overnight with no luck.

Another reason new threads should not be started on the same subject. Best to keep all answers in the same thread.

[boxer_inv]

Another reason new threads should not be started on the same subject. Best to keep all answers in the same thread.

Hi Don - yeah, probably right - I was in two minds when I put this one up. Anyhow, thanks for your input - always appreciate having the 'elders' helping out

I'm just about to head outside to remove the starter from the car and give it a bench test. I went over the wiring again last night-I know that diagram like the back of my hand now!!! - and still don't see where this problem is from. So, am going to take the starter out and work back from there.

Keep you informed.

[boxer_inv]

Hi

Quick update - have managed to solve the 'problem' and have got Dorothy started!

I took the starter out, gave it a quick clean on the outside, and put it on the bench. Test using the battery from the car saw the starter whirrrrrr up into life like there was no tomorrow, so put it back into the car.

I then put the battery in place, connected a cable from '-' battery terminal straight to the starter terminal, and then touched the '+' ground cable to the terminal - wound over nicely!

Then I put the lines back through the starter solenoid - and pushed the button - away it went!! I literally jumped for joy!!

I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what the problem was.... Best I can figure is that there was a cable, wire or terminal just not quite sitting right for a clean connection, or a ground was bad somewhere along the line.

Almost done with the wiring now. Just the front lights & indicators to re-install, and we're done. Pretty happy with the outcome, I'm going to take some photos and do another post with the finished product...

[greg g]

Great news!!! glad it got worked out, sometimes you just gotta exorcise those electrical gremlins.

[stylinmike]

Best I can figure is that there was a cable, wire or terminal just not quite sitting right for a clean connection, or a ground was bad somewhere along the line.

Woohoo! Congrats! I always find myself with problems where i dont want to remove certain items for troubleshooting (ie, starter) because it seems like too much work for a simple problem. Then when you finally do, the problem seems to pop up very quickly and it turns out being far less work than you intended.

[boxer_inv]

Woohoo! Congrats! I always find myself with problems where i dont want to remove certain items for troubleshooting (ie, starter) because it seems like too much work for a simple problem. Then when you finally do, the problem seems to pop up very quickly and it turns out being far less work than you intended.

stylin-mate, funny you should mention that, because I had looked at the starter motor with some suspicion when thinking about removing it. I had a picture in my minds-eye that undoing those 2 bolts would result in me shifting the housing, all sorts of springs, bearings and gears falling out with it, and me swearing like crazy...

Well, don't I feel like an idiot... that thing is just a big hunk of metal, all self-contained and easy in and out!! I cleaned up the starter with de-grease when it came out (was covered in gunk) but haven't repainted it as yet. Given how easy to remove it, I won't hesitate to take it off again when I next have the rattle can of paint out.

BTW - looks like the housing of my starter has taken a hit of some sort in the past - been brazed back together on the bell-end.

Cheers,

Rob.

[LuckyDevil]

at least you clamped the starter down before you checked it, I didn't know any better and tested one laying on the ground and that thing started jumping like an angry boa. those were the good old days. lol.