Intro, compliments, and a question or two.

[Guest mike_D24]

Hi, everyone. Mike from Denver, here.

For now, my username should really be Mike_thinking_about_buying_a_D24, but that's probably too long.

This is a great site and forum. I read all about the things to look for in buying a D24. I even ran a search on "newbie" here in the forum and got the benefit of a bunch of other newbie questions asked. Thanks for all this.

So here's how I found you: I was on Ebay doing my evening browse for motorcycles in my area, and I got it in my head to look for classic cars. They were all terribly expensive. Then I saw this one that said 1948 Dodge Sedan. I didn't get much from this, but there was something about the pictures that kept bringing me back. The bid was at 2000 and the reserve was not met. After the auction ended with no winner, I decided to email the guy. The car is only an hour away. I figured I wanted as much info as possible if I was going to go check it out. After some searching I found the car was called a D24. Shortly after, I found this site and the rest is history.

Here are some pictures (these are from his ebay auction...I think that's ok, right?):

Ok. Here's the question. Am I in over my head? I've been doing basic maintenance on carbuerated bikes for about a year and a half. I'm definitely a newbie. I am very interested in continuing to learn, and I've got some disposable income. I will be moving to a place with a garage in a few months, but I currently have none.

Assuming that the car only needs the basics (like those mentioned on this site), what am I up against? Why is this car calling me, even though I have always been somewhat indifferent to 4 wheels? I used the price calculator linked from the site. The Gold Book? Would you call that car "fair" condition if it drives smooth but needs paint, brake work, and U Joints, or would that be more towards "good"?

I appreciate you offering a resource like this, and I hope being a fellow enthusiast is somewhere in my future.

Thanks again, sorry for the long read.

Mike

[Shawn F.]

In my oppinion, it looks to be a solid car for a project. But from what is missing in the pic there like the lights and such then if those simple things are missing I am sure you can count on a lot of other things not being in great shape, etc and it would definately take a few grand to get it going nice. Yes maybe I am being a little over exaggerated with a few grand but it's true, after you buy engine, tranny, brake parts and some interior stuff, suspension parts, bolts and washers, filters, etc it all adds up and will be a lot of time and money. Remember this with old cars and hot rodding. Look for something you want. Now, thing of how long you think it will take to finish it to the point that you want it at and how much money it will take to get there. Now double or triple the money and quadruple (sp) the time it will take to get it done and that just MIGHT be the time and money it will take you.

It can definately be done though, just depends how bad you want it and how much you like the vehicle.

[Shawn F.]

BTW, did the guy say it runs and brakes are good, etc or what?

[Guest 1946rust]

Take newbie advice for what it's worth, but four doors seem to be less common than two doors, definitely less awkward,better for 4+ up cruising. If the drivetrain is working and there is no major rust, it would make a great restoration/hotrod project, provided that you know, from this forum, the kind of car you are buying. Like on the main site, these cars usually go for 10-15000 dollars mint condition. I have a friend whose grandfather is selling a 1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe, mint except for a rust spot the size of a quarter, for 15,000. Three years later and still no takers, especially because there's not much of a market where they are.

As far as price goes, I am a newbie but I would try 2500-3000 and not over 5000 unless you have competition or really like this particular car. Someone with actual experience please chime in and tell me how far off I am.

[Lou Earle]

I have had over 20 older cars in the last 20 years. I have about 14 in the barns now. I have started on them from dragged out of a barn to nearly original running condition.

In my opinion, buy the best condition car u can- Every Time I do that I come out way ahead in money and time spent.

Example:

D24 4 door in picture I now own :

$ 4,000-cost delivered and running well except bad brakes- 19.00 fix.

Good engine and trans all running gear etc in seats doors good

$ 1500 Fair to good paint job

$ 900 new new headliner, wind lace hand holders, visors. ( good interior is

about 3000)

$ 400 new window glass.

$ 600 mscl items- knobs,carb, points etc.

$ 650 rebuilt front end complete.(Includes tie rod ends steering box kit

k-pins and bushings. I did all the work that is parts cost)

All totaled I probably have $8,500-$9,500 in the car plus my labor . It is an excellent car however I will be lucky to get $7500 for it. By the way I am going to be selling it soon.

I can see about $6,000 worth of work on your prospective car now.

Paint- 2,500, brakes 600( ALWAYS assume brakes are bad and in need of repair on all older cars. Never,Never take anyones word they are OK- your life depends on them!!) finish interior 1,500( remember new wood grained dash and window molding are about 2,000 unless u do it yourself and u can.

I also suspect the steering wheel is shot has cover on it- as is the steering itself and u can expect to spend 200 to 700 on tires- depending on if u go with regular radials or wide whites . Have no fear I have a spare I will sell you for 25.

The hard parts to find in good shape are going to be the exterior moldings and clips- I will be making my own clips of the fender molding on my 48 taxi.

So that is what I think and have experienced on buying a decent drivable car to get it up to great looking and running driver quality. Same thing on a 50 Plymouth 49 caddy , 48 ford etc. I bought a mint 46 Plymouth coupe for 7500 and have done nothing to it- however I have receipts of over $8,500 worth of parts and labor done in 1994! Not counting cost of car and drive train repair.

As far as ease of working on the car. I believe any car in the 40 thru 65 zone are great cars for the hands on hobbyist. A basic $200 (on sale)set of craftsman tools will enable anyone to do 90 o/o of the work on these cars.

Tools plus a manual and this site is all u need. Hope u get it u will love these cars.

[Lou Earle]

Take a close look at the engine- The first head bolt is missing!! I would be very wary of this engine until after I had checked it out completely. Including pilling the head and having it checked by a machine shop It could be warped by having no head bolt installed. Also that would warn me about the fact that someone had gone inside this engine AND DID NOT KNOW HOW TO PUT IT BACK TOGETHER. Why- because if the had done it right and torqued the head He would have know about the bolt missing- Be cautious

Lou

[Guest Nile Limbaugh]

Mike, what everybody above said, to which I will add: Trim parts for any car (except fords and chevys) are harder to find than mechanical stuff. Therefore, if given a choice, buy the car with the most pieces still bolted to it (or in the trunk) unless you're doing a shaved street rod. As to cost, most of us, when it's time to sell, would be happy to get out our investment (if you want to call it that) which, for most of us, doesn't include hours and hours of both skilled and unskilled labor. So, even if paying the asking price for a decent car, you're probably still getting most of the labor for nothing! One other thing; unless you really like 4 door sedans I'd stay with a two-door body style simply because they're more scarce than 4- doors and they seem (at least in my experience) easier to sell. There. I've said my piece. Good luck!

[Merle Coggins]

I say, if it's "Calling out to you" than go get it. Provided the engine and power train is OK it could be a driver as is. I agree with Lou on the brakes. Regardless of their condition I'd go through them and check them thouroughly. Replace any questionable lines and hoses. Take it to Macco for an inexpensive 'DuPont overhaul' and have a decent weekend driver.

Merle

[Guest mike_D24]

BTW, did the guy say it runs and brakes are good, etc or what?

He said it ran like a top, but that the brakes and U joints need work. I think he also has since replaced that headlight.

[Guest mike_D24]

four doors seem to be less common than two doors,

I'd stay with a two-door body style simply because they're more scarce than 4- doors

Mike

[Guest mike_D24]

Take a close look at the engine- The first head bolt is missing!!

That's huge! I know that I'm not skilled enough yet for a full inspection under the hood. That seals that I definitely need to request a pre-puchase inspection. In your experience, are there typically shops around that can make head or tails of an older car? I won't be familiar with the shops in his area.

That definitely gives me a better bargaining chip, but I don't even want to approach an engine that may need full replacement. That is outside of my means right now (no cranes, no lifts, etc).

His words to me were that he "didn't do much to it except get it back into running condition after sitting for 3 years."

To me, that typically suggests carb varnish and other basics of sitting engines. That suggests more investigation, though, and I'll be sure to ask him about the head bolt. Thanks again.

Mike

[Guest mike_D24]

Take it to Macco for an inexpensive 'DuPont overhaul' and have a decent weekend driver.

I figured I'd rig a tent in a garage in a few months and do it myself. I'm amateur, but the savings in cost and the gains in experience would be totally worth it. Plus, you're right. I'm looking at that car for the esoteric appeal and that great solid feel of driving a big old car. I'm not making a show car or a hot rod, so if it's running, can stop safely, and is water-sealed (paint, bondo, sealers, etc), all the extras can happen over several years.

So that means Lou's list will be incredibly helpful, but it wouldn't need to be upfront costs.

Heh. You guys are the best, but I've gotten enough mixed messages that I know a few things now: I definitely need to go see the car in person and ask more questions. I definitely need to ask for a pre-purchase. I most likely will not go higher than $2500 pending the inspection.

Thanks so much for all your help. Anything else you have to offer would be enormous, but what you've given so far is plenty for me to go on.

With a resource like this and a car like that, even if I don't buy that one, I have a feeling I'm going to get addicted and won't rest until I find another one.

Thanks again.

Mike

[Guest Tavis Miller]

i bought a 47 d-24 last spring that i have been getting into. it looks to be in about the same shape as yours. i really enjoy it, even though i havent driven it since i've owned it. its cold here and i havent got around to doing my brakes. i'm not familiar with dodges and the numbers and whatnot, but i have a four door but it doesnt have suicide doors. ever picture i see of them has suicide doors. does that mean anything special? if it is or not, i still enjoy it and plan to drive her alot when i get her going. i'd have to agree with everyone else. make sure she runs. i heard mine run before i bought it, sounded good but i didnt let it get up to operating temp. it runs hot, i think its my water tube, which i'm guessing might be a project to replace, but thats what i bought her for, for the projects. good luck to you if you buy her. oh yeah, that was a good spot on the head bolt missing too, i wouldnt have noticed it if you didnt say anything!!

[Guest 1946rust]

Mike, I think Nile Limbaugh is right on 2 door-4 door. Mine is a two door but I would have preferred a 4 door because I want to use it for taking me and my friends to car shows and stuff like that. Sorry, bad newbie advice. It's caused by my car being 500 miles away and me not being able to work on it:o

[Guest mike_D24]

Thanks for the clarification, shel.

[Allan Faust]

I figured I'd rig a tent in a garage in a few months and do it myself. I'm amateur, but the savings in cost and the gains in experience would be totally worth it.

Instead of rigging a tent in the garage, pick up Decembers Auto Restorer magazine... it has an article on building a portable spray booth..... out of pvc pipe, plastic, a fan and furnace filters..... Really well done.

Allan

[Guest mike_D24]

Thanks for that, Allan. That's kind of what I was thinking. I'd be interested to see their set up. I like the furnace filters idea. I didn't think of that.

I'll give an update once I go see the car in person. I'm hoping it works out, but I don't think I'm prepared to spend much over 2k on it. Pre-purchase inspection is a must, though. I hope he's not too firm on his price.

Mike

[Allan Faust]

Mike,

If anything I'll be buiding one myself....since it can be taken down and put back together, inside/outside, it doesn't matter... don't get no nasty overspray all over everything, and after each paint job with the plastic film covering being changed, you got a new booth every time..... all it is is a PVC square with a fan on one end pushing the air to the other side where a row of furnace filters are found.....

Allan

[Normspeed]

Mike, that sedan looks pretty straight and rust free. If the other side and the rear are as good as the pictured side, good deal. The grille and front bumper look like they will clean up real nice. I like the Dodge logo on the upholstery. That missing head bolt might be due to the bolt being broken off when the head was torqued. With a couple good drill bits and a good quality easy out and a lot of luck you might be able to fix that at home without removing the head. Have fun.

[Guest mike_D24]

Mike, that sedan looks pretty straight and rust free. If the other side and the rear are as good as the pictured side, good deal. The grille and front bumper look like they will clean up real nice. I like the Dodge logo on the upholstery. That missing head bolt might be due to the bolt being broken off when the head was torqued. With a couple good drill bits and a good quality easy out and a lot of luck you might be able to fix that at home without removing the head. Have fun.

I hope all is well. After further investigation, the guy says he paid 2200 for the interior. That sucks, because I bet he's got his heart set on about 4k. He's being coy with the price, because he just put it back up on Ebay with a hidden reserve. Like I said, I'll go see it in person and feel things out. The auction ends saturday. We'll see. I'm excited, but I'm no longer sure it's going to be in the range I'm willing to spend considering the work it still needs. I would have preferred doing the fabrics myself and spending less initially. They are nice looking though, huh. Evidently he did doors and ceiling as well.

Mike

[Normspeed]

Ask him for a good look under the mats at the floor on both sides of the car. It sure looks solid from the outside but ya never know.

If this one doesn't pan out, there are more out there. For some comparison, I paid $3500 for a running 53 wagon that needed brakes. $3500 more and it still looks about like when I bought it but I have the mechanical part fairly completed and it's a good driver. I'm sure I'll put another $3500 into prepping the body, shooting some paint, rebuilding the overdrive tranny, etc etc.

[Guest mike_D24]

Most of the older machines seem like I can wrap my brain around them. They are all so similar to standard motorcycles.

I like the D24, because it's a very unassuming look. Not too flashy, but done well, it just has a great, classic look. That, and I LOVE the fluid drive. I can't wait to try it. The concept is just so neat. Clever as all get out considering just how young IC Engines were at that time.

Ask him for a good look under the mats at the floor on both sides of the car.

Totally. Thanks. That and now the latest is what Lou pointed out. That missing head bolt was rubbing him the wrong way. Now it's got me wondering, too, because I sent the guy an email about it. He says the engine runs like a dream, and that he doesn't know about the bolt. He says he never removed the head, and he doesn't have that info from the previous owner. That can only mean that the bolt is still in there. I suppose that's not the worst that can happen, but now a pre-purchase will be totally necessary.

Mike

[Lou Earle]

I have over 15 older cars now. I have sold several and bought several AND DECLINED MANY MORE.

Every car I have bought in the last 10 years I have asked the owner for the prior owners' name and address. If he does not remember Iforget it . If you got a bill of sale how could u not know the owners' name? So simply contact the prior owner. If He is dead or unavailable see if you can fine a member of this family. Ask them who were his automotive friends- contact them. For I I were gone and u were buying from my estate they would tell u about several of my buddies who would know about the car.. Believe me if someone is putting obstacles in your way to find the prior owner It ain't because the car is perfect and all is well!!

I have all that info on each car I have so if I sell one u get the info in the folder - whatever I have./

Also, am I wrong? Isn't that head bolt missing rather serious? I have never seen an engine well with even just tight head bolts. I have one engine that blew a head gasket because (Found out) the head had not been torqued the second time after its re-installation.

Lou

[Young Ed]

That missing head bolt is certainly something to be concerned about. I'd certainly use it as leverage along with the incorrect seat material. My coupe came with brand new seats too. I'm planning to replace them anyways because they are cruddy vinyl. That car looks very rust free. If that can be verified I wouldn't worry about the engine. Just dont tell the seller you aren't worried about it. Mechanical repair is a lot easier(and cheaper) then repairing rust.

[Guest mike_D24]

That missing head bolt is certainly something to be concerned about. I'd certainly use it as leverage along with the incorrect seat material. My coupe came with brand new seats too. I'm planning to replace them anyways because they are cruddy vinyl. That car looks very rust free. If that can be verified I wouldn't worry about the engine. Just dont tell the seller you aren't worried about it. Mechanical repair is a lot easier(and cheaper) then repairing rust.

I mean, Lou's right. If the source seems sketchy, it would not be worth paying the cost of a running car if it most likely will need top end work or worse. I'm going to wait for his response and see if he comes around and his memory stops failing him. Then again, if the car is in good shape despite the engine, then I will explain all of the potential damage to him and offer him the cost of a vehicle that is not running.

Question: If he agrees to a pre-purchase inspection, would the shop even want to open the head or would they just point and say "hm. Missing head bolt, check."

Mike