Lou Earle Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Ran the engine in my 48 scrap car fro about 20 minutes- ran very well. I was suspicious of the closed replaceable oil filter- sure enough- I cut it off - cut the lines and pulled it out - full of crud water and who knows? Any way the new oil I put in is now brown thick with what AI believe is sludge and water- some- but have no leaks in radiator or block- I say this because see no evidence of the the water in radiator decreasing. Anyway, when I get little finger in the oil drain hole I can feel a lot of thick stuff- feels like thick oil not gritty but thick. I do not want to remove the pan yet. So I am thinking about running some thin oil in the engine- like 5w 20 thinned some with brake fluid or quart of marvel mystery oil for about an hour ant say 800 to 1000 rpm then drain again to get the crud out - any thoughts. I have plugged off the oil filter outlet and return for the time being. Anyone ever done this as a process? Again the sludge on the pan is not thick like grease but like thin pudding. All thoughts greatly appreciated. PS The oil pressure is fine - over 40 at 550 rpm. Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff.P_46 Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 You can try diluting the oil with some diesel but I wouldn't run it very long. You really should just drop the pan, running the sludge around and thru the engine can be hard on it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgefran Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 It's been said .............by some Old Phillis-ooffer that if the sludge gets loose, it will clog the oil intake to the pump. Then there will be a lot more in the engine to 'rebuild". Dropping the pan is the eaasier of the decisions,and the leaqst expensive in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I agree dropping the pans is best but right now my main concern is to just protect the engine. I plan on pulling this engine and installing it in another vehicle - in about 6 months so i am just trying to get it safe to run some to keep it lubed and ready to ride. I talked to Tim Adams tonight and we discussed putting 3 or 4 qts of diesel in the pan and letting it sit over night then drain in the AM. I am doing that now to see what the am brings. There are no lumps or hard spots in the oil just very thick and about molasses on a cool day. I am thinking I am going to run it tomorrow with 10 weight oil then drain again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 The last few flatheads I took apart were very filthy - to the point where more than a full quart of hardend sludge deposits came out of the valve chambers alone. After seeing the inside oil circutts of these engines, I think it would be a total waste of diesel fuel or whatever flush you contemplate. The screens on the oil pickups of these engines clog badly. Otherwise, all the block oil passages are easy to reach with the pan down. If you study a lubrication chart and then look at the drivers' side of the block, you will be able to dientify the main oil galley and the pressure regulator plug, plus the small pipe plugs at each horizontal drilled passage into the cam bearings. These are the same plugs used to connect the oil filter and the oil pressure gague. If you remove all these plugs and the main feed crossover pipe inside the pan, you can then blow out each passageway with compressed air and be certain al is clean. The hardest part of the engine to get really clean is the valve cover areas. Make sure all those return holes are clean. Iwouldn't use an older engine without doing this operation first, AND doing the same thing to the water jacket with the pump off and the distribution tube and block core plugs out. Then you have something to work with, and it can all be done in a few hours time. JMHO:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Maybe let sleeping mice lie :eek: From my Chrysler's original engine oil pan with piston parts visible as well as upholstery stuffing. They were living on the oil pickup, made larger by more stuffing and twigs. Might be worth it to take the pan off and clean it out, Lou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randroid Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I have never tried this and do not necessarily endorse it, but a friend in Fairbanks told me that since 5 wt. oil isn't always thin enough they add kerosene. It doesn't strike me that anything you'd be willing to run in the engine would be so strong as to instantly desolve the crub, but rather it would slowly start to take stuff from the top because that's how things erode. With that in mind I would feel comfortable running an additive and running the engine long enough to bring it to temp. I wouldn't run it much longer that that but you'll get some of whatever solvent you use into the oil galleys, etc., so when you eventually take it apart the job should be easier. One other thought; if you have a metal oil drain pan and a large funnel and some gloves, how about when to drain the hot oil strain it back into the engine thru some muslin in the funnel and back into the engine. It will hit the pan with more turbulence that it wouldn't otherwise get and should knock loose more crud. If you have more new oil than common sense you could theoretically keep changing the oil mixture until everything sparkles inside. -Randy (Who believes the common sense level of everyone in this forum is high enough to see some humor in this.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 When I pulled the oil pan on the 41 Dodge engine that I rebuilt for my 48 Plymouth, I found the oil pan above the top of the oil pick up full of cotton from the mice and the first three rod journels were blue from heat from a lack of oil when running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nile Limbaugh Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I might as well get into this, too. IMHO the risk of pumping crap up into the oil passages and getting it caught there thus cutting off the oil supply to delicate parts isn't worth the risk. In fact, I wouldn't think of running the engine until I had gorped out the pan and flushed as much crud as possible from the passages. There. Now I feel better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Nile I'm with you on this one. No harm will come to that motor in 6 months. Just set it aside and do it right when you are ready to swap it into the convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I put kerosene in the pan last night and let it sit overnight . Drained it this am a lot of brown soupy crud came out. before I drained it I put a tube down the oil dipstick hole and blew air into the 4 quarts or kerosene. just with mouth and made a lot of bubbles and turbulence in the sump part of the pan. Then drained and out came the kerosene and some sludge- not lumps but thick black oil type . Then got a piece of 12 inch copper tubing and bent a 45 degree angle in one end and put it in thru the drain hole and used it as a tool to drag the sludge to the hole - got a lot more but just thick oil. I was cool here 48 or so. The oil was heavy and thick. Went to wall fart (oh excuse me) and got some cheap 10 w 30 oil- 8bucks including tax for 5 quarts. Put it in the engine and fired her up. Ran just fine and I noticed after a few minutes the oil pressure was holding a steady 50 at about 1000 rpm. Dropped it to 550 and oil pressure as dead on 40. Let it run 30 minutes. I put a piece of cardboard in front of radiator and still could not get it above 195 on actual thermometer in the tank . Man these systems were well designed for cooling. The drained the oil- hot about 125 degrees. Out came black oil but this and rapidly flowing. Reached the tool back up in there and the was a small amount of sludge - just thick oil left inside. I know most here recommended dropping the pan and I agree but I was doing the second best. I got to thinking about this thing of oil passages getting clogged. First the screen over the oil pump should prevent any "lumps" from passing from the sump to the passages. Second if the engine was running and hot then then oil in the galleys should flow back into the sump without incident. Third I know of no way oil can get into a oil passage except thru the pump. So I was not to concerned that I might mess it up after all it had been running for over an hour before I did this procedure. I had drained the oil oil and put in new oil. Any way the oil pan has a lot less thick or or sludge and oil pressure is fine. Engine runs very well now. and my mind is at ease - at least I made sure all water etc has been removed. On the A model board this issue came up- blocked oil passages- and someone asked if anyone had ever found ab locked oil passage and no one had. Has anyone here actually seen a oil passage blocked? I have seen a screen completely covered in crud but not a passage. I appreciate everybody's' thought and I will be removing the pan in due course. Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgefran Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Sounds Good. I am videoing my '38 DeSoto L Six flathead engine rebuild for the local Public Access TV station. The rebuilder worked on the oil galleys and spent a bit of time explaining what was happening. There was quite a lot of solidified oil in it. I was surprised. He mentioned that "that oil was sitting and waiting to flow into a smaller opening in a new rebuild and clog it. I was impressed to say the least. There was quite a bit of sludge on that brush, and a big glob came out in front of it as it went through. As suggested in these other responses, it might be useful to clean out the lifter area before softening up those hidden "clogs" in the smaller openings just to be a little safer. My oil intake had a few holes in the screen. If I didn't drop the pan, I never would have seen it. This is just my experience with my engine. Now that it is clean, I can use any type of modern oil that I choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I found the screen on both my engines had crud stuck to it. The original engine was the worst being pretty well solid. It took some scrubbing with solvent and a small wire brush to get it clean. The "new" rebuilt industrial engine, while otherwise very clean, had almost as much crud plugging the screen. It too took some scrubbing to get clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1just4don Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 The ONLY reason I can see for NOT pulling the pan as suggested is...the price of a gasket. How expensive is a gasket in the scope of the project??? Even the blue form a gasket isnt too expensive and...works!! Its an 'excellent' way to see the health of all bottom end parts before the real work of installing(and possible removing) it again AFTER its too late. Call it a 'piece of mind' insurance ticket. IF the motor was to stay IN the car and taking it out was only way to accomplish said feat,,,maybe not. Since it is out and on the floor anyway,,,just good sense. Tell somebody AFTER you had problems,,,that you saved the price of a gasket,,and see how foolish it feels to say such things THEN!!! Your milage MAY vary,,but NOT-SO-MUCH!!! IF it needs just a new set of bearings bolted in,,think how much better that is for the engine,,,or the filter screen cleaned even!! At the bare minimum I sure would stick the air compressor into that copper tubing and see what else you can blast out of there!! Much more efficent than a lung blow!! You might even over fill the whole bottom end with kerosene or diesel, then stick that long bent copper tube everywhere you can and blow some bubbly air and drain a few times in a row!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 I believe the engine in my truck was the victim of a clogged oil passage. As someone mentioned above the oil passages need to be brushed out during a rebuild. Well the rebuilder didnt get it clean enough and it wiped out all the bearings at 172 miles. Long story but it turned out to be a costly mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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